Masterful Crafters

[Less2]

Haven't seen much discussion on this civic. What are everyone's thoughts? At first glance it seems really quite nice to me. I tried Technocracy which unfortunately sucks now and really gimps your early game research due to 50% more CG costs, which led me to look around and find this. All the bonuses look quite nicely tuned for both a military and tech rush. 2 free trade to convert into base resources is good, +1 CG production isn't bad, +1 engineering (most important research field) is also quite decent, and +1/3rd of a build slot per industrial district is nice as well.

All the bonuses seem to combine pretty well to take the pressure off needing to build anything other than industrial districts early game and focus 100% on slamming out alloys and research.

To draw a comparison, if you build 6 industrial districts on every planet you'll get the effects of Functional Architecture's +2 buildings slots and if you run 6 artisans you'll be getting +12 energy per month forever which will very quickly pay off better than -15% district cost.

 

[HFY]

Technocracy is dead; long live Merchant Guilds.

I really like the building unlocks on Masterful Crafters. All the bonuses are nice, and the +1 base CG means delaying expensive crystal production for a bit, which is also nice.

 

[Less2]

Yeah, Merchant Guilds definitely feels like the power pick now. I went with Pleasure Seekers to leverage my CGs even though I figured it was probably slightly sub-optimal. It's definitely OK, and the trade value of master crafters has greatly cut down my energy needs such that most of my basic resource districts are mining. I imagine with Merchant Guilds I'd barely need energy districts at all (ontop of getting most of my food from stations) whilst pumping out massive amounts of alloys and research from all my worlds. At least until the massive battleship fleets portion of the game.

Overall none of the bonuses from Masterful Crafters is individually great, but they are all nice and getting 4 nice bonuses in a single civic seems excellent.

 

[HFY]

Pleasure Seekers would have more draw if I weren't using Academic Privilege for my Authoritarians and Utopian Abundance for my Egalitarians. Without the lifestyle it just doesn't seem worthwhile. (Some day I'll make an empire which leverages the lifestyle.)

Those two CG-intensive lifestyles are why I'm okay with Merchant Guilds + Masterful Crafters, btw. Both increase TV and CG production, but early on the Merchant Guilds don't help with CG, and late-game the extra building slots from Alloy districts is great -- put in one Paradise Dome for housing and passive Amenities, and you can fit a bunch of refineries on a planet which has no City districts, only Alloys.

Also for the first time I've enjoyed early use of Marketplace of Ideas -> Trade League instead of Consumer Benefit -> Trade League, since the Masterful Crafters covered the CG demand long enough without TV support.

 

[Less2]

Just throwing out some numbers that I've devised to help explain why this civic feels so powerful and makes my start so smooth:

+1 CGs per artisan off a base of 6 is +16.6% CG production. Keeping in mind that base production is stronger than +% bonuses that stack additively, this is roughly enough to let someone on Mixed Economy go to Militarized Economy for "free". So, roughly +25% alloys. I feel that if there was a simple civic that gave +25% alloy production that it would be a high tier pick for many people on its own.

+building slots has already been compared to Functional Architecture. A mid to high tier pick. I figure that builds that consider it a high tier pick are probably playing on habitats where this bonus doesn't work, but still a great pick.

+2 TV per artisan is hard to compare, but it's gotta rate at least as good as +1/4th to +1/3rd of another free pop. For what's going to probably be the 2nd or 3rd most occupied job in the game, that's a lot of free production.

+1.1 engineering maths out to be surprisingly good. Assuming you have a 1 artisan per 2 researchers that works out to be +12.5% base engineering. That's going to be much better than Natural Engineers in the long run. And I think 1 artisan per 2 researchers is a bit of an underestimate

Overall, amazing civic. Easy to pass under the radar because each bonus on its own is hard to rate since artisans are a job that isn't very glamorous to create and boost. But if any of these bonuses were its own individual civic with 4x the strength, they would be an overpowered civic. So I think we have to say that Masterful Crafters is overpowered.

 

[Less2]

Also for the first time I've enjoyed early use of Marketplace of Ideas -> Trade League instead of Consumer Benefit -> Trade League, since the Masterful Crafters covered the CG demand long enough without TV support.

Would you propose going Mercantile Traditions first for this? It does seem tempting.

 

[HFY]

Would you propose going Mercantile Traditions first for this? It does seem tempting.

Absolutely yes, perhaps before finishing Expansion (though I did finish Expansion first both times so far).

 

[ZeeHero]

Can someone explain what makes merchant guilds good now?

 

[HFY]

Can someone explain what makes merchant guilds good now?

1 - Merchant Guild was always good; trading a small quantity of Amenities and Unity for 12 TV was always a good trade, and adding +Unity to the Merchants you get from various sources was always nice. In 3.0 one could use TV to generate the majority of one's CG in order to spam more Researchers and fewer Artisans. Also Trade League was always great, and remains great.

2 - The changes in Lem mean you can now build Habitats with 4 Merchants very soon (1 good Tradition, 1 desirable tech) -- 1x Habitation district, 3x Trade districts, upgraded capital for your 4th Merchant -- and then you get +20% trade on top of that from a colony designation. That's a lot of CG or Unity, plus some energy, all without any mineral upkeep.

3 - Not using Habs or didn't get the tech yet? No problem! Spam some Commercial Zones on your colonies (instead of Entertainers). You have extra building slots open if you build your Industrial Districts in packs of 3. With the Tradition, every un-upgraded Commercial Zone gives you 1 Merchant job (and some Clerks which you can turn off, except with the tradition they're up to 5 TV so maybe they're okay now? I dunno, I still turn Clerks off.)

 

[Less2]

Merchant guilds was never really bad, just utterly dwarfed by Technocracy. Now that Technocracy is awful and nerfs your research rate it goes to the bottom of the pile.

Not sure I would spam commercial zones though, building spots are too valuable for research labs.

 

[ZeeHero]

How does technocracy nerf research rate? that's supposed to be the opposite of what it does, it was always THE tech rush civic. if it was too powerful for that purpose than swap a little of the bonus for something else, but to make it do the opposite of what it should?

 

[Less2]

Technocracy now causes your researchers to cost 1 more CG each in exchange for their 1 unity production. Which is an awful trade and means you can't afford nearly as many researchers as before.

 

[Deshiba]

There's more uses for merchant guilds + master crafters then described.

• Because trade is your Energy credits income, you can skip/ignore the energy producing techs like below, because they do nothing for you.
  • 
• And due to you being trade focused you can rush the mercantile tradition to unlock the trade policy "Marketplace of Ideas" early. Adopting it will allow you to rush traditions at a pace where you unlock 2 to 3 of its trees where regular empires only unlock one. So going Mercantile -> Expansion -> Diplomacy will set you up real nice.
  • (diplomacy to form your alliance to unlock the better Trade League policy)
• With Masterful Crafters also producing trade value & tech and Trade League producing consumer goods, you can switch over to Militarized Economy. The -25% CG from jobs won't affect the CG from trade, so you don't really loose that much CG, but you gain a lot of Alloy production.

 

[HFY]

Not sure I would spam commercial zones though, building spots are too valuable for research labs.

It's common to build a Holo Theater and employ at least 1 Entertainer to avoid penalties until you can upgrade your Capital building.

Use that building slot for 1 Merchant instead of 1 Entertainer.

 

[Dirk_Slamchest]

I lean more towards RP than min-maxing, and I love how this civic FEELS. Having smaller bonuses in several places gives my economic planning kind of a refreshing tilt.

In my casual MP group I paired the Megacorp versions of Masterful Crafters and Pleasure Seekers with a Wasteful, Decadent, Thrifty, Intelligent species. Wasteful + Decadent Lifestyle living standard meant super high CG upkeep, but I didn't even care, because that just meant I had a reason to employ even more Artificers, which simultaneously pump out Engineering research and open building slots. I was also making good Unity as a side effect of my growth-producing Entertainers, so when I got Marketplace of Ideas I rocketed ahead of everyone in Traditions. The whole setup synergized incredibly well, even though I designed it around the joke of a civilization run by a sex toy manufacturer...

 

[blahmaster6k]

+2 TV per artisan is hard to compare, but it's gotta rate at least as good as +1/4th to +1/3rd of another free pop. For what's going to probably be the 2nd or 3rd most occupied job in the game, that's a lot of free production.

I wouldn't say that Artisans are going to be the 2nd or 3rd most occupied job in the game, especially if you're going to be part of a trade league. In the early game you want mostly researchers, metallurgists, and technicians, with a few artisans to make up the slack if you can't afford to just float CGs on the market. After the early game you're going to be getting your CG needs entirely met through trade value, so you don't need any artisans at all.

That's not to say Masterful Crafters isn't a nice civic to have early game and makes you more pop efficient, but I'm not sure exactly how good it is compared to others. The new Functional Architecture is pretty hard to beat as a starting civic assuming your other one is merchant guilds.

 

[Deshiba]

I wouldn't say that Artisans are going to be the 2nd or 3rd most occupied job in the game, especially if you're going to be part of a trade league. In the early game you want mostly researchers, metallurgists, and technicians, with a few artisans to make up the slack if you can't afford to just float CGs on the market. After the early game you're going to be getting your CG needs entirely met through trade value, so you don't need any artisans at all.

If you are going for the trade route, artisans are your 1st or 2nd most worked job (gonna be close with merchants).

That's not to say Masterful Crafters isn't a nice civic to have early game and makes you more pop efficient, but I'm not sure exactly how good it is compared to others. The new Functional Architecture is pretty hard to beat as a starting civic assuming your other one is merchant guilds.

I currently consider Masterful Crafters to be 1st tier pick for the Void Dweller Origin, any empire that can take it should.

 

[blahmaster6k]

If you are going for the trade route, artisans are your 1st or 2nd most worked job (gonna be close with merchants).


I currently consider Masterful Crafters to be 1st tier pick for the Void Dweller Origin, any empire that can take it should.

Anything that isn't Functional Architecture is at best second tier for void dwellers, unless you're a megacorp because they don't get FA for some reason.

I still don't see why you would have artisans as a trade build. Trade value provides all of your consumer goods after the early game due to merchant spam, the only time when you need artisans at all is before you can scale up the merchant spam.

 

[Deshiba]

Anything that isn't Functional Architecture is at best second tier for void dwellers, unless you're a megacorp because they don't get FA for some reason.

Everything that Functional Architecture does for Void Dwellers can wait until you reform your government at 3 civic slots.

• The -15% discount is nice, but hardly vital.
• The 2 building slots can't be filled early game and you have 3 other ways of getting more slots when it does become relevant.

I still don't see why you would have artisans as a trade build. Trade value provides all of your consumer goods after the early game due to merchant spam, the only time when you need artisans at all is before you can scale up the merchant spam.

Lots of reasons:

• Early game artificers allow you to run Utopian Abundance/Academic Privilege/Utopian Abundance from day one (more TV/pop)
• Early game artificers give you engineering tech which is vital for robots/habitat tech. It's also flat tech instead of a modifier.
• Early game artificers give you a bit of Trade Value, which is a nice bonus for the early game unity boost.

The point to artificers is to keep them running for Consumer goods until you get your federation up and running. Once that's done, go ahead and swap it out for another civic that helps you in the mid to late game.

 

[Dragatus]

@Deshiba

1) Running Utopian Abundance or Academic Privilege for more TV requires you to be egalitarian or materialist and does not apply to all trade empires. More importantly it's a bad idea to do so in the early game because the extra trade per pop isn't worth the extra CG upkeep. The two living standards increases TV from a specialist by +0.17 and the CG upkeep by +0.5. You cannot get a trade bonus high enough to make that trade worth it, ever. Those are overpriced living standards that are good for RP or for showing off you've won the game.

Even if you just want to max out TV for RP value you're better off having a cheaper living standard and replacing Artisan/Artificer jobs with more Clerks. 1 Clerk will produce 4 or 5 TV and to match that you'd need to increase the living standard of 23 or 29 specialists. Having 1 Artisan or Artificer accomplish that is possible, but you'd need to be a synthetically ascended Fanatic Materialist with the Environmentalist civic.

2) Artificers do add Engineering, but the post you're quoting is talking about Artisans. Not the same job.

3) Again, not the same job.

If you're going for a trade empire you will be generating much of your CGs with trade so you have less need for Artisans. Because you have fewer Artisans than normal you also benefit less than normal from upgrading them to Artificers. And that reduces the benefit of taking Masterful Crafters.

What you seem to be doing is taking Masterful Crafters for a trade empire, producing more CGs than you need by having a lot of Artificers, and then finding ways to use them by running costly living standards. There's nothing wrong with that. If you enjoy playing like that then it's even great and don't let anyone talk you out of it. Just don't use it as a basis to make general claims.