Martin Boreman + Rudolph Hess Is Best

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  1. Rhineland: 2x INFRA then 4x CIC
  2. Rhineland: max CIC
  3. Moselland: 3x INFRA
  4. Moselland: max CIC
I wouldn't put any infra anywhere. But you really wanted to, maybe 1 in rhineland, because they get the most slots out of the level 8 infra areas you start with that won't also be going straight to 10 with autobahn (brandenburg).
All I've been doing is queuing up factories in rhineland, westfalen, and wurttemberg. By the time you fill up all of the slots they have available, your next industry tech should finish and you'll have more slots. And by the time tech rushing makes the industry tech take longer to get than what you can fill up the slots, you should probably have autobahn done and now you can build in hannover, thuringen, franken, and brandenburg with a higher level of infrastructure.

  1. Bormann
  2. free trade
  3. Krupp / Schacht ?
  4. Schacht / Krupp ?
  5. Canaris
I'm not sure you'll be done 4YP early enough to pick schacht third, but even with taking Krupp third, you have enough time to get the PP to get schacht as soon as 4YP finishes according to my tables, as long as you don't take 2 workhorses right off the bat. You could actually delay your workhorse to second pick and still meet this timing.
 
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Porsche, the heavy tank designer. When you're hitting whichever tank with a +5 gun and +5 reliability, the +5% soft attack from medium designer is really only +4.3%. Now, getting +4.3% soft attacks is better than +0 soft attack, but especially for medium tanks that is not what your weakness is. Medium tank weakness is often their hard attack (even after +5 gun) and armor. The reliability of the medium tank designer is only +5%, which in order to hit 100% reliability with +5 gun, you still need to use +5 reliability. Guderian largely replaces the need for the mobile tank designer, though the reliability could be used to save you some XP on boosting reliability. But why spend the opportunity cost on having more attacks and armor to save XP, when you're generally going to have a lot of XP?

not Henschel?

-> Speed +5% and Reliability +10% ?
 
not Henschel?

-> Speed +5% and Reliability +10% ?
Guderian largely replaces the need for the mobile tank designer, though the reliability could be used to save you some XP on boosting reliability. But why spend the opportunity cost on having more attacks and armor to save XP, when you're generally going to have a lot of XP?
Unlike attacks which are limitless and armor being dependent on enemy piercing, speed and reliability have effective caps regardless of other factors. Reliability past 100 doesn't do anything, making the fastest unit in the division even faster doesn't matter if there is a slower battalion holding the division back. You already have Guderian that is giving you +10%, which offsets the original penalty of -10% because of +5 gun. If you end up with lots of XP and also want to +5 the engine, you're getting +20% speed, the extra +5% from mobile designer is actually only 4.17%. And once you get to MT3 which Germany can do pretty quickly, with either MW MI branch or SF doctrine, you just need to +5 the engine and you're at the same speed as motorized or top tier mek. If you're picking Blitz branch of MW, you only need to +3 the engine. Mobile tank designer isn't doing anything for your tanks that you can't also get from somewhere else, so why not use your designer to get something that you would have greater difficulty getting somewhere else.
 
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Unlike attacks which are limitless and armor being dependent on enemy piercing, speed and reliability have effective caps regardless of other factors. Reliability past 100 doesn't do anything, making the fastest unit in the division even faster doesn't matter if there is a slower battalion holding the division back. You already have Guderian that is giving you +10%, which offsets the original penalty of -10% because of +5 gun. If you end up with lots of XP and also want to +5 the engine, you're getting +20% speed, the extra +5% from mobile designer is actually only 4.17%. And once you get to MT3 which Germany can do pretty quickly, with either MW MI branch or SF doctrine, you just need to +5 the engine and you're at the same speed as motorized or top tier mek. If you're picking Blitz branch of MW, you only need to +3 the engine. Mobile tank designer isn't doing anything for your tanks that you can't also get from somewhere else, so why not use your designer to get something that you would have greater difficulty getting somewhere else.

until now I always increased Armor to +5, increased Reliability to 100 and try to keep speed at 12.

Never put anything to gun, as I never had any problems with hard-attack in SP.

Tank Division (w20) | Doctrin MW R+R:
  • 4 M-Armour
  • 3 Mobile INF (later Mech)
  • 2 SP-M-ART
...use my Tank-Division for breakthroughs and encirclements, therefore I rely on speed, high ORG and soft-attack (as 90% is against INF in SP-DR).
 
until now I always increased Armor to +5, increased Reliability to 100 and try to keep speed at 12.
I would advise checking how much piercing your enemies have, and whether or not you actually need to +5 your armor to secure the armor bonus against them.
Never put anything to gun, as I never had any problems with hard-attack in SP.
Even if you're not having problems with hard attack, +5 gun is +15% soft attack. You later mention wanting soft attack, and this is a pretty good source of it.
Tank Division (w20) | Doctrin MW R+R:
I would suggest considering using L+R for extra org and speed, or switching to SF doctrine for more attacks. With the current design of your divisions (20 wide with variants), your choice does make a lot of sense though (right side gives more breakthrough to your less amount of tanks in a small division).
2 SP-M-ART
But I don't like your division design, and that is why I don't like your doctrine picks. I do not suggest using Medium-SPGs. Medium is the weight class where the advantage of SPG is their lowest, at tier 1 its 9.5 v 14 soft attack per width only +27 across 6 width, at tier 2 its 12.5 v 16.67 only +25 across 6 width, and at tier 3 it is 16 v 18.33, only +14 attacks. If you're using SF doctrine right/right, MT3 is actually more attacks per width than MSPG3, with similar +5 and designer.

A side effect of using more tanks instead of more SPG, is that it will also raise your armor value. Using https://taw.github.io/hoi4/ which currently doesn't account for design companies, set to 1950 tech and ignoring doctrines because it doesn't really matter, a 7 tank 3 motorized where the tanks are +5 gun and no armor has just past 300 soft attack and 71 armor, while a 4 tank 3 mot 2 SPG where the tanks are +5 armor and the SPg are +5 gun has less than 300 soft attack, much less hard attack, and 77 armor. If all you're fighting is the AI, I don't think the difference between 71 and 77 is going to make or break your armor bonus, but this of course assumes you're using tier 3 equipment instead of tier 2. Now, of course there are lots of other ways you can try to compare them and decide which one you like more. But I think that not having to research and produce a variant, or have to spend extra XP on getting an extra gun+ reliability is going to be a lot more straight forward and easier to deal.

...use my Tank-Division for breakthroughs and encirclements, therefore I rely on speed, high ORG and soft-attack (as 90% is against INF in SP-DR).
As previously mentioned, you don't need your designer to give you the speed if you want to avoid having the tanks hold the division back. And if you want soft attack you're better served by doing gun upgrades. rather than armor.

Ultimately, do what you want. But There are certainly some pretty viable alternatives to your current methods.
 
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Hi, i got a question. Why do ppl manually switch to war economy? isnt it better to switch via the focus for the extra mil factories?
You switch manually to go to war economy as fast as possible. The difference in consumer goods% is worth it when you're trying to build up factories, and it helps you unlock more of your factories fastest. You can still do GWE later if you want and get the factories then(though IWE has a higher payout and the two prerequisites can both be bypassed).

If you rush to GWE, the fastest way you can do that is taking 4YP -> Autarky -> Autobahn -> GWE. This means you're still on Partial Mobilization until day 280, October 6. Compared to buying it manually in May/June during the SCW or earlier if you farm with aces to Ethiopia.

And that's assuming you rush straight for the focus. No Rhineland, Army Innovations, Tank Treaty, and no going for the 12 civilian factories right after you finish Autarky. It's just better to have War Economy as soon as you possibly can, even if it costs extra PP compared to waiting for the focus.
 
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Why are you getting armor at all, least of all battleship armor... and spending XP for it?

In SP DR can rule the seas with not that much effort, what make a lot of things easier from my point view.

Therefore I try to get all modules to manage a very early upgrade of my two pre-war BBs and the two 36er BCs to have them ready for Sealion.

Especially the 36er BCs were unbelievable strong in my last run, just with a few uprgades.

50 naval XP and just 40 days research time are quite cheap from my point of view, especially if you are 2+ years before the next important industrial/electronic tech.
 
In SP DR can rule the seas with not that much effort, what make a lot of things easier from my point view.

Therefore I try to get all modules to manage a very early upgrade of my two pre-war BBs and the two 36er BCs to have them ready for Sealion.

Especially the 36er BCs were unbelievable strong in my last run, just with a few uprgades.

50 naval XP and just 40 days research time are quite cheap from my point of view, especially if you are 2+ years before the next important industrial/electronic tech.
I have many contentions with this.

Firstly, if your goal is to rule the seas, BB and BC are the least useful ships to use to do so. Testing in game has shown CA to be the superior capital ship for nearly all purposes, including killing other capital ships. The only ship that beats CA in that regard are SHBB, but those are torpedo magnets.

Second, even if you do use BB or BC, their armor is the last thing that you should care about. Torpedoes and naval bombs ignore armor. Armor above piercing results in linear damage reduction proportional to the ratio between them, so just barely edging out the enemy piercing doesnt really reduce damage the way it does in land combat. In order to really get any significant damage reduction out of your armor, you have to spend a great many of your limited resources. That chromium and steel can be used to better purpose be it heavy tanks or just in civs not being used on imports.

Third, refitting ships to use new armor is by itself 75% the cost of simply creating a brand new ship. If you also refit better engines onto them, that will cost more. And thats without factoring in all the other refits you will be doing to it. Better to simply make a new ship that has the armor and engine you desire than refit armor or engine modules. Then you'll have two ships, one outdated and one with the armor and engine you desire instead of just having one ship.

50 naval xp is quite a bit of fuel that Germany does not have. And no, it is not more worthwhile to research it than to be researching those 2+ year ahead of time industrial techs. Because you have research bonuses to them, they will be completed in 1937.
 
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I have many contentions with this.

Firstly, if your goal is to rule the seas, BB and BC are the least useful ships to use to do so. Testing in game has shown CA to be the superior capital ship for nearly all purposes, including killing other capital ships. The only ship that beats CA in that regard are SHBB, but those are torpedo magnets.

Second, even if you do use BB or BC, their armor is the last thing that you should care about. Torpedoes and naval bombs ignore armor. Armor above piercing results in linear damage reduction proportional to the ratio between them, so just barely edging out the enemy piercing doesnt really reduce damage the way it does in land combat. In order to really get any significant damage reduction out of your armor, you have to spend a great many of your limited resources. That chromium and steel can be used to better purpose be it heavy tanks or just in civs not being used on imports.[/QUOTE]

Especially my 36 BCs performed outstanding good last run, but I didn't even build 36er CA, as I don't want to spend XP for upgrading just one ship (I refitted this one to CL).

2x BC 36
20x CL 36 (4-gun-design)
12x DD36 (3-Torp-design)

...sunk everything without losses - this might not be a perfect fleet, but good enough for me to stay with this, especially as I had no better idea! ;)

But I was not aware, that I have to spend Chromium for upgrades.


Third, refitting ships to use new armor is by itself 75% the cost of simply creating a brand new ship. If you also refit better engines onto them, that will cost more. And thats without factoring in all the other refits you will be doing to it. Better to simply make a new ship that has the armor and engine you desire than refit armor or engine modules. Then you'll have two ships, one outdated and one with the armor and engine you desire instead of just having one ship.

...as said, I was not aware, that I have to spend Chromium for upgrades.

And as you already (almost) have these ships in 36, I want to make some use of them.

Do you skip the production of the BCs?


50 naval xp is quite a bit of fuel that Germany does not have.

From that point of view, you might certainly be right, but I don't exactly know how much fuel (in IC) the 18 subs and 13 DDs need to produce 50XP.

And no, it is not more worthwhile to research it than to be researching those 2+ year ahead of time industrial techs. Because you have research bonuses to them, they will be completed in 1937.

Will you lose that much, if you delay this by 40 days?
 
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Testing in game has shown CA to be the superior capital ship for nearly all purposes, including killing other capital ships. The only ship that beats CA in that regard are SHBB, but those are torpedo magnets.

Never tried this, but I guess...

...that I can't use the super-heavy armor for BCs?
...that refitting to SHA will take much more time then to "all-or-nothing"?
 
Never tried this, but I guess...

...that I can't use the super-heavy armor for BCs?
...that refitting to SHA will take much more time then to "all-or-nothing"?
Superheavy Battleships have their own hull, and the only armor option is the super heavy armor iirc, which cannot be used on other regular BB/BC hulls. The only heavy gun option is the Super Heavy Battery, which also cannot go on regular BB/BC ships.

Generally, it is never worth it to refit ships except for very minor components like fire control, RADAR, and sometimes things like AA or secondaries. Just build more ships.
 
I am still not convinced that 1) Rhineland 4) Four Year Plan is optimal. Nor has anyone showed the actual math in doing Export Focus/Free Trade second as opposed to third, what the actual net benefit in civs and research days is.
 
I am still not convinced that 1) Rhineland 4) Four Year Plan is optimal. Nor has anyone showed the actual math in doing Export Focus/Free Trade second as opposed to third, what the actual net benefit in civs and research days is.
Not that you are going to get this message because you got me ignored. If someone wants to quote or say this in their own words, feel free.

Rhineland first for obvious PP jumpstart and prevent France from wanting to challenge. You seem to agree on this point. Some people that don't care for the 5 WT allowing some of the democracies access to their industrial focuses early and they might delay rhineland, but that is a different discussion.

Army innovations second because it brings you to treaty, and largely only because it brings you to treaty. The doctrine research boost is nice though.

Treaty third because it forces the Soviets to dedicate one of their 3 research slots to heavy tanks instead of industrial/research techs and slows down their growth. This also lets you start rushing your tank tech earlier. The longer you delay your tank tech, the less of those tanks you're going to have to fight with. Having more factories doesn't really help if you are producing worse equipment than what you would otherwise have. Rather than comparing factory counts, we should probably be comparing quantity and quality of equipment. You don't like tech rushing and especially don't like '39 panthers, so you probably don't care about this. You also prefer single player where the soviets are all sorts of inefficient and you throwing a wrench into their plans doesn't matter when they've thrown 5 of their own into it.

4 year plan fourth because you can't do it earlier on account of the other things. It is also conveniently the point where (with either juggling or an early free trade/krupp) you have finished dispersed 1, and can start dispersed 2 without using the boost from 4YP, so you can save it for either dispersed 3, or if you tech steal dispersed 3, construction 4. This either grant you and earlier construction 4 and therefore earlier construction 5, or an early enough dispersed 2/3 that you can keep building in rhineland/wurttemberg/westfalen before you get autobahn and switch to the +100%'s with lots of slots. My testing of these timings ignored agency, so you do technically have looser tolerances until you fill up the slots, but you'll be getting autobahn eventually and switching anyway.

Doing 4YP earlier so you can get the HG-werke and KDF wagen earlier is going to disrupt your research timings (dispersed 2 earlier before it is required, dispersed 3 way later) and is going to delay treaty from third to at least 7th, probably 8th or 9th (after research slot and maybe autobahn) which is about a year and a half into the game and greatly diminishes the value of doing the treaty at all which is otherwise a rather powerful bonus.

Delaying 4YP and as a result, HG-werke to 6th and KDF to 7th instead of probably 4th and 5th is a loss of 1400~ or so factory days if we assume 2 are lost to consumer goods. That is a whole extra factory and a bit which is certainly a good thing. Extra factories are good, and the earlier you get them the bigger your snowball gets. But lets refer to an earlier point. What are you using these factories to do? You're going to be way behind on your tank unlocks which means that even with an extra factory or two, You are either producing a worse equipment, or have produced a smaller amount of the equipment because you had to wait longer before you could even start producing it, even if you had more factories to assign to it. Delaying treaty makes your enemies stronger (if they were competent enough to take advantage of the opportunity) and yourself weaker.

Edit. In case the mention of it earlier was glanced over, 4yp fourth requires either research juggling, or an earlier krupp/free trade (why bother with just moving up to export focus) in order to meet the timing. If you aren't doing 4yp fourth, having free trade or krupp earlier doesn't matter near as much. But in the same vein of you arguing to take 4YP second so you can rush the factories, why not also rush free trade for the extra construction and research speed (that gets more construction speed faster) so you can get even moar factories? Delaying free trade and war economy so you can get hess and bormann hurts your economy and research now so you can have more high command in time for a war later. I'd rather strengthen the research and economy so I can just have more of a better thing and later boost it further with high command, than have less stuff or worse stuff, but boost it with high command and later replace it with better stuff. The stuff is a larger factor than the officers, more often than not.
 
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Don't do Hess. You can either take Free Trade or Bormann first depending on if you're taking Bormann or Goebbels. I typically do Bormann -> Free Trade -> Krupp -> Schadt -> Canaris -> MAN/Porsche -> Guderian -> Messerschmidt -> Opel -> B&V -> High Command, with promises of peace and raids decisions sprinkled in after Guderian.

If I'm not doing Bormann I take Free Trade first, then Goebbels, then everything else is the same.


Why do you prefer Opel instead of Mauser in 1st place?

So far, I have always taken Mauser first and then switched to Opel later?
 
Why do you prefer Opel instead of Mauser in 1st place?

So far, I have always taken Mauser first and then switched to Opel later?
Because Germany doesnt rush infantry weapons ahead of time, they leave that to Romania, or maybe someone else. But they very much need amtracs to cross the rivers in the Soviet Union. If they dont then they will be stopped at the Stalin Line. And nobody in the Axis is really advantaged in research bonuses for those more than Germany is, so they rush it. Remember that bonus to transport ships from operation Weserubung can be used on amtracs and should be used to rush the 1943 model.
 
Why are you bothering with battleship armor? Battleships are terrible, and refitting armor is terrible. There is basically no point.

Why are you still building infrastructure in rhineland?

Why are you bothering with mossland when you have other 80% infra boosts in westfalen and wurtimberg?

Are you spending a tank treaty research boost on lspg2, the wespe?

You dont plan to get p4 or p5 after p3? Why are you bothering with porche for p3 when there are only 22 days left?
 
Because Germany doesnt rush infantry weapons ahead of time, they leave that to Romania, or maybe someone else. But they very much need amtracs to cross the rivers in the Soviet Union. If they dont then they will be stopped at the Stalin Line. And nobody in the Axis is really advantaged in research bonuses for those more than Germany is, so they rush it. Remember that bonus to transport ships from operation Weserubung can be used on amtracs and should be used to rush the 1943 model.

I guess this is just relevant for MP?