Marrying away courtiers

[Duke of Bavaria]

Just had a game of CK1 and got a lot of offers from other courts to marry my female courtiers away. In CK1 theres actually no reason to do that and loose a valuable advisor. So maybe there should be some relation or prestige boni, especially if the King of Leon asks for the hand of one of my courtiers when i am a shitty count. In CK1 theres no reason to do it, while IRL it might have been a big honouer and surely would have tightened the bonds. And if i rejected my liege surely would be pissed, or maybe could even force me to give the hand of my courtier to him some way. Just clicking reject because the only effect would be loosing a valuable courtier surely doesnt add to the flair of the game.

 

[Ruwaard]

Well there are reasons to do so, for instance you do get an increase in prestige (depending on importance of that court). This can be helpful if you start out as a count.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Thats what i meant, i didnt actually know you already get prestige, but as i metnioned this mechanic could be extended.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

A persistent bonus to relations between the courts would be nice. The devs said that they intend to make it A LOT more transparent how relations between rulers come about... so maybe a marriage can give you a persistent modifier, not only in liege-vassal relations but also in your dealings with equal-rank rulers. Say, you're a duke and you plan to overthrow the king. You should want to build relations with other, disaffected vassals and marriages should be the method of choice, both to improve relations in preparation for a "formal" alliance as well as to open up f.ex. new diplomatic options. (easier influencing, more likelihood that they follow you when you declare war, etc)

 

[RedRooster81]

A persistent bonus to relations between the courts would be nice. The devs said that they intend to make it A LOT more transparent how relations between rulers come about... so maybe a marriage can give you a persistent modifier, not only in liege-vassal relations but also in your dealings with equal-rank rulers. Say, you're a duke and you plan to overthrow the king. You should want to build relations with other, disaffected vassals and marriages should be the method of choice, both to improve relations in preparation for a "formal" alliance as well as to open up f.ex. new diplomatic options. (easier influencing, more likelihood that they follow you when you declare war, etc)

That all sounds reasonable. One of the interviews mentions the importance of marital alliances, e.g., your son-in-law gets involved in a war and asks for you to help him out. This should also work its way into plots, like you said.

 

[yourworstnightm]

I think courtiers not a part of your dynasty should be important. Since every character now has a goal of his/ her own they will be just that. I expect intrigues and plots, both against the ruling dynasty, but also feuds between families and characters in your court as well as conflicts between your courtiers and your barons. I also think that courtiers not part of the ruling dynasty should marry, since they too want to form alliances to consolidate their power and influence.

 

[Orinsul]

I hope not-dynasty courtiers will marry themselves off, maybe asking your permission if itll take them out of your court.
And alongside this you ought to be able to arrange marriages for them, but then theyd have to say yes as well as the second party

 

[RedRooster81]

Nick B II in the thread "The Marriage Game" commented today on the pitfalls of courtier marriage: in particular, there is the issue of having thousands of landless nobles filling up the thousands of courts that will exist in CK2 by game's end. This was a real concern in CK1, as it drained system resources, so I would say that as IIRC happened historically that noblemen generally needed offices or land to marry and women a dowry of some kind. I'm not saying that courtiers should not marry, and of their own accord, but it will become a problem when after four centuries of gameplay you have a whole lot of people without prestige, land, or titles hanging around. To some degree, I guess you can manage this by retirement events as in CK1, though this did at times seem artificial.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Nick B II in the thread "The Marriage Game" commented today on the pitfalls of courtier marriage: in particular, there is the issue of having thousands of landless nobles filling up the thousands of courts that will exist in CK2 by game's end. This was a real concern in CK1, as it drained system resources, so I would say that as IIRC happened historically that noblemen generally needed offices or land to marry and women a dowry of some kind. I'm not saying that courtiers should not marry, and of their own accord, but it will become a problem when after four centuries of gameplay you have a whole lot of people without prestige, land, or titles hanging around. To some degree, I guess you can manage this by retirement events as in CK1, though this did at times seem artificial.

True, however I think it could be tweaked with courtiers retiring, or filling empty baronies if a baron's line go extinct. Could be interesting to see church educated courtiers joining the bishoprics or the monastic orders.

 

[semaphore]

Well, it would be quite cool if prominent courtiers will occasionally produce offsprings. I mean, there needs to be new coutiers every generation, right? Won't hurt to have the new spawns be the son of your chancellor.

However actually arranging for your coutiers to marry is overdoing things. We don't really need to have mini-dynasties perpetuating themselves in every court. Having coutiers in a court marry each other by themselves would be better and, I think, more realistic, but in bigger courts we'll still run into the same problem with courtier overcrowding. Perhaps it might work if courtier families will only produce roughly two next-gen courtiers in each marriage - the rest of their children could be farming in the countryside or whatever - but that seems unnecessarily.

 

[TempestDK]

In Rome the courtiers would marry on their own ... not sure if they needed a certain amount of money and/or prestige before they would do so though. Been too long since I played it. But I think maybe some mechanic like that could be used in CK2 to handle landless nobles marrying.

 

[yourworstnightm]

In Rome the courtiers would marry on their own ... not sure if they needed a certain amount of money and/or prestige before they would do so though. Been too long since I played it. But I think maybe some mechanic like that could be used in CK2 to handle landless nobles marrying.

Hmm, in Rome they also needed the ambition to marry and they never had any luck if they didn't hold an important office. Perhaps it could be the same here, male courtiers that lack an important position or large wealth/ interesting claim have no luck on the marriage market.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well, it would be quite cool if prominent courtiers will occasionally produce offsprings. I mean, there needs to be new coutiers every generation, right?

Well I doubt we will see much courtiers being generated in the game. Since we already know that you now can appoint your vassals as an advisor (and they said that they this partly to cut down on the number of characters).

And since each province can have a maximum of 8 settlements/baronies, each count can at least have 7 vassals and if you then take into account the family of the count then there isn't much need for random courtiers to have as advisors.