Marriage weirdness question.

[TheDarkMaster]

So, I married my grandson (a breton) who didn't stand to inherit anything to an orc woman. Shortly after the marriage, he leaves my court for his brother's court and is married to some randomly generated Breton girl. The orc is now married to some random other lord. Neither have any history of the original marriage. I didn't get any event informing me about it or have any idea what really happened there. Can anyone tell me what exactly happened here?

 

[Darsara]

I believe that the AI now breaks interracial marriages when left without player oversight. When your grandson moved out of court the event probably fired to divorce them.

 

[Zsrai]

The AI forces divorce on interracial marriages that won't create children, I believe. You can do it as the player fine though.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

This character was in my court, and I've seen other Bretons around my realm successfully have kids with the orcs. It feels really strange that this happened with a character who had neither lands, nor stood to inherit any.

 

[Novacat]

The event fires if either partner in the marriage is a ruler, heir, or pretender.

The AI forces divorce on interracial marriages that won't create children, I believe.

In most cases, yes, but Orsimer are a bit of an exception, while children between Orsimer and Mer/Men are possible, marriages are broken up anyway due to the huge stigmatization of Orc-NonOrc pairings. Given, this is mainly done in the first place becasue AI is stupid.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The guy is third in line for my crown, so I guess him being a pretender explains the marriage being broken up. It would be nice if this either didn't kick the guy out of my court (he was an amazing chancellor) or you didn't break up marriages in player controlled courts. I might consider implementing such a system in my better gender mod some time down the line so that the AI keeps their dynasty in power with matrilineal marriages past the first in line for the throne a little better.

The cultural and religious diversity has already lead to two provinces flipping to the redguard religion in my High Rock game, actually, since those marriages aren't broken up. The orcs have only managed to integrate themselves into one of the merchant republics. Probably because those are the only marriages that haven't been broken involving them. I am glad that they properly marry with each other as a priority, so they don't just get wiped out from low numbers.

Would it make thematic sense for Breton+mer pairings to be more likely to produce offspring then any other man+mer?

 

[Novacat]

The whole 'kicking out of court' thing is not actually WAD, but rather a consequence of the divorce command. Also, they hardly marry eachother as a priority, the AI event is more of a blunt instrument for the more extreme cases because we cannot actually influence whom the AI wants to marry.

 

[Arquibus]

Is there a way to make this not happen? I had it happen in my court twice in a row today, to two different sons. I was...annoyed.

 

[Novacat]

I would be more asking you the question of why you are trying to marry Orsimer/Khajiit/Argonians to your heirs, especially since the latter two will not produce any children. The event wont break up manmer pairings.

 

[Arquibus]

I was orcish, and had managed to convert a vassal's daughter (Breton) to Malacath worship, and then set up a betrothal, assassinated his primary heir, so on and so forth to take over his holding for my dynasty. Heirs come of age, marriage happens, then autodivorce, and then I rage quit.

 

[Novacat]

Well, you are Orsimer. Your not really supposed to marry your way to the throne, but conquest for it.

 

[Arquibus]

Blood is blood, in war or marriage. While I understand the point you are making, it seems an unnecessary restriction. For infertile pairings it makes sense, at least from a mechanical perspective. Orsimer do not have that distinction. And while the Orcs are regarded as a predominantly martial race by the other peoples of Tamriel, they have been known to show political savvy and deception, when it advances their cause. I don't see it as particularly invalid to seek to assimilate the lands I've taken by conquest into my own people, through blood of either kind. At any rate, I'm not really asking you to change your mod, just asking for advice to make adjustments for myself.

 

[Heinrich4]

Go to the mod folder, then events. There you can find "ai_events.txt"

Remove followind lines from the trigger:

AND = {
graphical_culture = orsimergfx
spouse = { NOT = { graphical_culture = orsimergfx } }
}
AND = {
NOT = { graphical_culture = orsimergfx }
spouse = { graphical_culture = orsimergfx }

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Maybe it would make sense not to prevent those marriages with orsimer if both of them share a religion? Else there could be some other way of making 'civilized' orsimer that people can marry?

 

[Novacat]

I recommend reading Notes on Racial Phylogeny, which clearly indicates that coupling between orcs and non-orcs, especially of the consensual nature, is almost completely unheard of in Tamriel. The reason why the script was added was because, as soon as either the Orcs conquered a bit of Breton land, or the Bretons conquered a bit of orc land, you would have massive intermarriyng between Orc and Breton nobility, as the religious penalty no longer applies if you both have the same liege.

Note that the script is fairly linient, it generally only applies to heirs and pretenders.

 

[Arquibus]

Thanks Heinrich4.

Maybe it would make sense not to prevent those marriages with orsimer if both of them share a religion? Else there could be some other way of making 'civilized' orsimer that people can marry?

This is what I was thinking as well. I've read Racial Phylogeny, which references the cause of "deep cultural differences." But, if I've begun converting other peoples to the worship of Malacath and trying to integrate them into my culture, those cultural differences should start to disappear. It's also true that with exception of the Gray-Prince, there are no known examples of non-orismer/orsimer pairings (to my knowledge, at any rate) but a Tamriel in which an Orc Kingdom controls a substantial area of territory that belonged chiefly to others is very different than the history of the lore.

At any rate, thank you for the assistance Heinrich4, and thanks to everyone working on the mod for your work.