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Confucianism in London, certainly.
Gentlemen, please vote on the following two issues :
I am at the moment abstaining from the last vote because I do not have full possession of the facts. I would like to hear from neutral observers what was their impression of the civil war situation in Spain.
Gentlemen, please vote on the following two issues :
- Change of core rules : Only gain cores for provinces with a land connection to, or on the same continent as, your capital. Votes so far : KoM and Sid both voted yes.
- Toubkal returned to Ego. Votes so far : Ego and Sid yes, Abs no (I think?)
I am at the moment abstaining from the last vote because I do not have full possession of the facts. I would like to hear from neutral observers what was their impression of the civil war situation in Spain.
I'm guessing there's no way I could get some compensation for the massive maintenance and building costs that the AI caused in building nearly 225,000 extra troops, many cavalry and artillery, as is very obvious if you look at the disbanding losses in the stats. Any compensation available?
EDIT: Just so you know, keeping that army alive and paying off the 2 or 3 loans the AI took to build these troops were practically the sole cause for my gaining of 5 inflation this session (actually I only gained 3 of it, when I joined in 52 I already had close to 15).
EDIT: Just so you know, keeping that army alive and paying off the 2 or 3 loans the AI took to build these troops were practically the sole cause for my gaining of 5 inflation this session (actually I only gained 3 of it, when I joined in 52 I already had close to 15).
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Edits for Spain
Ok, now i would like to say a couple of things. Since we dont have a GM at the moment, i would like to say that we should start voting for one. I hope, this new GM, will be more responsible, will not leave players in the lobby for hours straigth, will not play lots of years with most players away, will rehost if a human country is at war with any other country, or is facing a civil war and of course, will enforce all kind of rules. I also hope that people will not DOW AIed/ghost countries or take provinces from them in any way the player would disagree to. I would vote for Sterk as a GM, but since he isnt available all the sessions, my vote goes for Ear. I just hope that if we elect any new GM, he will NOT forget any of these rules.
Lastly, since the "rehost date" is january of the next year, i would ask that EVERYONE, will pause, tab and check ICQ (in each january), and see if the player that left is currently online and if he has said anything about crashing. If he is online, then good, save, rehost, and tell him to come. If not, keep playing. Waiting till January, should not be applied if the player is in a civil war or in a war with any other country, be it AI or Human, if he is, then an imediate rehost should take place. An imediate rehost should take place as well, if the player states something that everyone would agree to, like having an explorer in the middle of the ocean, who will die of atrition. This way, no one will be able to say "You guys dont give a crap to my country", or "You just want my Country to die", which, is actually true.
P.S. now you question yourself, why does this bastard want everyone to check ICQ? Wouldn't one Person alone be enough? And i answer it back: No, it is not. I for example, usually when i CTD, i reboot my pc right after, but i always tell one or 2 persons that i did such a thing. So if it was only one person checking ICQ, he will not be able to see what i said, because i may have said it to someone else. So, i will ask it politely and kindly again: At the start of each year, if a crashing player is missing, check ICQ, everyone. Thanks for your atention.
- Core in Sahara (ID 805)
- Core in Cyrenaica (ID 741)
- Core in Quattara (ID 742)
- Core in Oporto (ID 434)
- Core in the Azores (ID 823)
- Spain receives Tassaret from Poland (ID 804)
- All of Morroco goes back to Spain, this includes Toubkal and all TPs they got.
Ok, now i would like to say a couple of things. Since we dont have a GM at the moment, i would like to say that we should start voting for one. I hope, this new GM, will be more responsible, will not leave players in the lobby for hours straigth, will not play lots of years with most players away, will rehost if a human country is at war with any other country, or is facing a civil war and of course, will enforce all kind of rules. I also hope that people will not DOW AIed/ghost countries or take provinces from them in any way the player would disagree to. I would vote for Sterk as a GM, but since he isnt available all the sessions, my vote goes for Ear. I just hope that if we elect any new GM, he will NOT forget any of these rules.
Lastly, since the "rehost date" is january of the next year, i would ask that EVERYONE, will pause, tab and check ICQ (in each january), and see if the player that left is currently online and if he has said anything about crashing. If he is online, then good, save, rehost, and tell him to come. If not, keep playing. Waiting till January, should not be applied if the player is in a civil war or in a war with any other country, be it AI or Human, if he is, then an imediate rehost should take place. An imediate rehost should take place as well, if the player states something that everyone would agree to, like having an explorer in the middle of the ocean, who will die of atrition. This way, no one will be able to say "You guys dont give a crap to my country", or "You just want my Country to die", which, is actually true.
P.S. now you question yourself, why does this bastard want everyone to check ICQ? Wouldn't one Person alone be enough? And i answer it back: No, it is not. I for example, usually when i CTD, i reboot my pc right after, but i always tell one or 2 persons that i did such a thing. So if it was only one person checking ICQ, he will not be able to see what i said, because i may have said it to someone else. So, i will ask it politely and kindly again: At the start of each year, if a crashing player is missing, check ICQ, everyone. Thanks for your atention.
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KoM, i will tell you the truth, believe me or not. By the time i CTDed, there were only 3 provs owned by rebels: Iceland (which is still held by rebels), Balearic Islands and Toubkal. I had my army besieging Baleares, and when i CTDed i just had time to order the assault, which from it seems suceeded. ABS was besieging Toubkal (like i asked him), but i think he didnt even dare assaulting the Small fortress there, because he would loose troops. If i was in the game, i would have moved my army from Balearic Islands (who took it) back to Toubkal. But since i wasnt, the goddamn province declared independence 4 months after the rehost. 1 full year was more then enough to take it back.
P.S. About iceland, i didnt even notice till now that i reloaded the game. But i swear: i would have taken Toubkal before they would declare independence. And about Cores, i vote No. Everyone gets Cores everywhere. It lowers Stab and raises Census AFAIK.
EDITED: I want a Conquistador/General Combo once again. Thanks
P.S. About iceland, i didnt even notice till now that i reloaded the game. But i swear: i would have taken Toubkal before they would declare independence. And about Cores, i vote No. Everyone gets Cores everywhere. It lowers Stab and raises Census AFAIK.
EDITED: I want a Conquistador/General Combo once again. Thanks
By the way, I'm pretty sure I should get cores on all the provinces I hold in Europe, including Orenburg and Astrakhan and all west, cause it's 50 years, right?
If i recall, your provinces need to be of the same culture as your country, must have the same religion and need to be held 50 years straight... I dont know if there was a Population requirement though... But i think there should.
Sterkarm said:
It does seem to me that these problems were caused by being away without a sub. We have been compensating for AI stuff when that was caused by other players going past stop time, or there being no rehosts for several years, or such. But when you were really gone, not suffering from others playing outside the agreed time, or not rehosting, then I think them's the breaks.
Ego, about cores, that's sort of the point. I really don't think it's good for either realism, gameplay, or game balance if we hand out cores in the New World. You make a huge empire, you should pay vast amounts of stab costs. If you want to have all the benefits and none of the disadvantages of conquest, why not play Civ or an RTS? The whole point of EU2 is that conquest doesn't always pay.
I am going to abstain on the Morocco issue, crashes do happen even when there are rebellions around, but a civil war is a bit nasty.
Another thing i would like to say: I was not "Blackmailing" like some people said. The fact is, that this "little thing" happens for the third time. First time, it was with me. I CTDed right at the start when i was at war with 5-4 AI countries. No one bothers rehosting for me. KoM goes in a frenzy and plays 10 extra years, even with most players away. The results are catastrophics to me: i lost nearly my whole army, plus 6-7 provinces to the AI, including my CoT. In 10 years, these 6 provinces plus my CoT provided lot of cash (my CoT alone provided 60 MI yearly, meaning 600 income lost over these 10 years). Secondly, it happened with Sterk (partly due to me, because i said "he seemed to be giving in"). And now, it happens again. In the middle of a freaking civil war, i crash, and no one bothers rehosting. I crashed in what, March? You guys played to January of the next year. In that time i would have crushed every rebels already. I did get really pissed at this. Now, if this kind of situation tends to happen again, be it with me or someone else, expect me to leave the goddamn game. I am NOT blackmailing, i just really hate playing a game where people just want to see human countries on the verge of destruction.
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King of Men said:
I vote yes on the first, and no on the second.
I think I will be able to play all, with an exception here and there during the summer and why would you vote for me?
Leaving players in the lobby for hours straight is of course a bit excessive, but if they drop, they should count on that they wont get a rehost right away, one or two years may be played.
If the dropped player is facing a CW, we should not rehost, as he has not gotten it yet, but if he gets it, an immidiate rehost should of course take place.
Lets say that a player, or players for that matter, drops frequently during the session, should we pick them up right away all the time?
No, because that would mean that the others wont have any fun at all, and IMO, its more important that the majority of the players have fun, than they if they all would be bored because the game isnt playable.
It was NOT in the middle of CW, you had three provinces controlled by rebels, that could just have been ordinary rebels, so dont say that you were in the middle of a CW. If you had been, I would strongly have advocated a rehost right away.
The first example that you bring up, I have no memory of, perhaps it was a session I wasnt part of, I dont know, so I cannot make any judgement on that but I agree, there should have been a rehost, be it if I played that session or not. The second example I have some recollection of, but as you said yourself: "he might be giving in", why did you not check ICQ as you are advocating people to do and see if he really gave in or just CTDed?
My dear friend, the problem was that he wasnt in ICQ. He had a problem on his pc, "one of his fuses" blew, or so he said. He came back later 30 mins, and got annoyed that we started the game, in which he was at war with Ear, and just WPed him. He though it was better to end the game, after all, we could play, what, more 10 minutes?
It is SURELY not excessive. When they played 10 extra years, they played it nearly for 1 hour. We were so near the end time, and lacking so many players, that i though they had stopped playing. I spammed Sid in ICQ, he didnt answer me. Some time after, he said they had just stopped playing. I got mad at this.
Not rehost? Now what the hell is this? And what you mean "has not gotten it yet"? I was facing a civil war and an "immidiate rehost" didnt take place.
And i will say again: I was in the middle of a Civil war. A civil war in first hand, makes you loose LOTS OF PROVINCES, specially if you own 70. Secondly, i lost my general and nearly half of my army due to the Civil war. This wasnt the biggest problems. The problem is, that anyone who knows to put down civil wars efficiently, knows that he must take back all provs fast, else they will start defecting or declaring independence. I did this to all in a very short time period, but then i CTDed right when i had ONLY one province remaining to be assaulted. Toubkal was only controlled by rebels because of the civil war. A civil war will ONLY end when all provs have been taken back, which wasnt the case. So stop saying "The civil war was controlled". If it was controlled, it wasnt by me, and Morroco wouldnt declare independence. Burgundy had its troops besieging Morroco, but didnt even dare to assault the fortress... If i was there, i would have, and Morroco would never break away.
Some players CTDed before i did. You rehosted for them. When i CTD (which was the only time in this freaking session), right at the start, you were, uhm, "too bored" to rehost for me? Do i have any fault if Dano crashed? Was it too hard to rehost since everyone had the save? Honestly, it may be not the case, but i interpret this as if everyone who was inside (and didnt agree to rehost for me), just wants to see human countries getting worse. I know everyone wants to win, but for chirst sake, lets play Fair and Square. Just because i may be currently the best country, that doesnt mean i dont deserve a rehost (indeed, i would prefer to be the worse, just like jerusalem... that way i would get an instant rehost... ehe).
It is SURELY not excessive. When they played 10 extra years, they played it nearly for 1 hour. We were so near the end time, and lacking so many players, that i though they had stopped playing. I spammed Sid in ICQ, he didnt answer me. Some time after, he said they had just stopped playing. I got mad at this.
Not rehost? Now what the hell is this? And what you mean "has not gotten it yet"? I was facing a civil war and an "immidiate rehost" didnt take place.
And i will say again: I was in the middle of a Civil war. A civil war in first hand, makes you loose LOTS OF PROVINCES, specially if you own 70. Secondly, i lost my general and nearly half of my army due to the Civil war. This wasnt the biggest problems. The problem is, that anyone who knows to put down civil wars efficiently, knows that he must take back all provs fast, else they will start defecting or declaring independence. I did this to all in a very short time period, but then i CTDed right when i had ONLY one province remaining to be assaulted. Toubkal was only controlled by rebels because of the civil war. A civil war will ONLY end when all provs have been taken back, which wasnt the case. So stop saying "The civil war was controlled". If it was controlled, it wasnt by me, and Morroco wouldnt declare independence. Burgundy had its troops besieging Morroco, but didnt even dare to assault the fortress... If i was there, i would have, and Morroco would never break away.
Some players CTDed before i did. You rehosted for them. When i CTD (which was the only time in this freaking session), right at the start, you were, uhm, "too bored" to rehost for me? Do i have any fault if Dano crashed? Was it too hard to rehost since everyone had the save? Honestly, it may be not the case, but i interpret this as if everyone who was inside (and didnt agree to rehost for me), just wants to see human countries getting worse. I know everyone wants to win, but for chirst sake, lets play Fair and Square. Just because i may be currently the best country, that doesnt mean i dont deserve a rehost (indeed, i would prefer to be the worse, just like jerusalem... that way i would get an instant rehost... ehe).
Well, considering I'm a rather successful Emergancy GM for KES, I nominate myself for GM, why you ask? Well unless the reserves finally accpets me I wont be going anywhere all this summer until July 10th at earliest. And maybe then I can get a cheap laptop and still play
I agree that whenever someone crashes SOMEONE has to check ICQ and see if a rehost is needed immediately.
I agree that whenever someone crashes SOMEONE has to check ICQ and see if a rehost is needed immediately.
It is common practice in EU2 MP to play 1 or 2 years after a country has dropped unless it is in a human war or has a full blown civil war.
This ensures a decent number of years and therefore enjoyment amongst the most number of people.
This ensures a decent number of years and therefore enjoyment amongst the most number of people.
As far i have seen, that is true. But everyone gets provinces edited no matter what. And now there is people contesting either i shall get them, or not... Pretty funny... Because of someone's inresponsability, i have to pay for it.
BurningEGO said:
That time, IIRC, we had forgotten that you CTDed, that can happen to everyone, and I said I was sorry for not rehost after a year or two.
You were not facing a CW at the time of the crash, you had just gotten it and it was almost over, simple of that, saying that you were in the middle of it is bullshit. Indeed, you had only one province left that was rebelcontrolled, and this is by no means a reason for a rehost. I wonder wether I should keep wasting my troops on your CWs as clearly, you show no gratitude whatsoever, this time I didnt even get a thank you, but I was accused of plotting against you. I had assaulted your forts all over Spain and cleared it completely, and now you are complaining about me not assaulting a little province in Africa.
We didnt rehost at once for anyony, except for Sid, as he crashed when trying to ghost, and I believe that if one crashes during that, an immidiate rehost is needed. What do you mean by "Do i have any fault if Dano crashed?"? Accusing us for not rehosting because we want your country to go down in flames is complete bullshit. We didnt rehost at once for KoM when he crashed, and I am quite sure he dont believe that we only played a year because we wanted to ruin his country. You are not the best country, you may have a good economy, but if I wouldnt have helped you in your CWs, you would most probably have quitted the game for quite some time ago. Italy, England or Norway is the best countries atm, get your BB down a bit and you could compete with these.
Hey! My country is doing okay as well. I've managed somewhat at keeping the yang guizi at bay.
Sid Meier said:
I havent said that your country is doing bad, but if you look at the techs and the income, you cant compete with those countries.
I vote no on the core rule, yes on giving ego back toubkal.
Tell that to the 5 merchants in shanghai, or the italian colonists in Java.
EDIT: 1000 posts for this thread.
Sid Meier said:
Tell that to the 5 merchants in shanghai, or the italian colonists in Java.
EDIT: 1000 posts for this thread.