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Sid Meier

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hmmmm bu shi. I choose China at the start, I didnt play the CK portion of the game, I didnt choose a euro nation because of the fact that europe was so darn crowded and I like to play nations I wanna conquer the world with.

I'ld much rather be China and stay China, I put what 3-4 sessions into this?
 

King of Men

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Two, I think. But I do agree that it would be nice to still have the non-Europeans in some kind of shape to put up a bit of resistance, when we get there. My preferred solution is to find another Italy player; if Formula wants to switch, that's fine by me, but we should then try for another Bengal player. Best of all, though, would be if Trav did not leave. Trav, could you please post something so we can make decisions on a firm foundation?

Formula, I'm not sure what you mean by 'pro-active'. Did you maybe intend to write 'retro-active'? At any rate, I'm not quite sure what you are voting for.
 

Formula51

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Yes, I meant retroactive. I vote that you can get an AAR in a bit late, and the edits can be added in another session.

And as for trav, if he wants to leave, that's unfortunate, but we need to move on.

What are your disagreements with the addendum to the culture rule, KoM?

As for non-euro nations, they are only important when the euro nations have been taken by perms, I believe.
 

King of Men

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Well, if single-province cultures don't matter for balance, then they also don't matter to the state that gets them, am I right? That argument cuts both ways. And I do feel that holding many cultures together should be a difficult task, and that the conqueror's lot should be a hard one. I don't want to see vast empires where every culture is equally accepted, it's just not right for the period. Hell, even now the Basques are in revolt!
 

Formula51

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Look, the very fact that the states in this game havent collapsed is evidence enough that your point about culture is wrong. England holds ireland, scotland, and france, spain holds north africa, portugal, YOU own north germany, norway, sweden, and denmark, and it goes on and on. These empires plainly haven't collapsed under their own weight, and are very much prospering instead.

It is not even 1500 and already europe is divided up between 8 states. Domination of a culture can be achieved, ESPECIALLY if the culture is very minor (such as the catalans in eastern Spain). Rarely (such as the basques) do cultures such as these hold longstanding nationalist movements. The reason this seems to happen more often than not is because these cultures strive to make their struggle known to the world, in order to gain support.

As well, it's not that it is right for the period (unless you are innovative, in which case it is), it is that many nations, again like spain but with the moors, instituted brutal repression against, and deported those who did not share the same cultural background. Thus these nations achieved cultural hegemony in those areas where the alien cultures lived. If we wish to simulate this, then perhaps for a sizeable population and basetax decrease, the culture of a province could be converted to your base culture.
 

Sterkarm

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I will post my thoughts on culture later, but I must say, the AAR rewards should only apply to AARs written between the session it applies to and the next session. Otherwise I could just save up all my AARs and it would get really confusing. Strong no to AAR saving.
 

Sterkarm

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Ego, you just don't know your limits. You are the main reason that there are now only 2 players left who have played all the way from the start (KOM and I, but Ear and Dom pretty much count too). Traveler was the originator of this game. He was the soul and spirit for quite a while when the rest of us were down. Now, declaring war and whatnot, alright, that's part of the game, I'm not so much against that. But when you start posting and saying bad things about Trav and what he did LONG before you were in this game, you've crossed the line.

Now, Traveler most certainly should not have quit, your actions didn't justify that. That being said, you are the reason he left, not necessarily because of your in-game concrete actions, but because of how you acted towards him. I've told you this before: learn your place. You should never come into a group of players who have been playing together for a year straight and act as though you are the GM, not to mention your insulting of numerous players within this group, including KOM, Trav, and myself.

Furthermore, if you think a 3v1 war against Traveler was justified, but a 3v1 war against Hungary wasn't, then tell me, what's the difference? I personally think that gangs are simply part of the game and they are no reason to label other players as cheap or cowardly. However, I am against hypocrites, which you seem to be (from my point of view).

You have no right commenting as negatively as you have on Trav's or any player's actions which occurred before you joined this game. As for Trav refusing your deals, that is HIS choice. Whether it pisses you off or not, they're his provinces to trade or not. Furthermore, either you're being secretive about it, or you just aren't that bright. Consider the location of the Canaries... they're MUCH more valuable than all of the other provs Trav lost (as well as Savoie). That's just another reason you should keep your mouth shut.

I will say this once and for all. Do NOT insult Trav any further. I respected and still respect Trav. You, on the other hand, are only an insolent little punk in my mind. I've said this in much nicer ways before, but now I don't care anymore. You need to learn a lesson or you'll keep destroying games.

As for any in-game effect saying all this may have, if it's negative towards Poland, so be it. I would rather be annexed than keep silent about what I truly feel.
 

Lurken

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I am breaking my promise, but I have to say this.

Traveler, I disagreed with you. But as Sterk says, you are the soul of this game, and for that, I respect you highly.

And, EGO; Sure, I ageed that economyvise right now, it would be smart to sell Canaries, but I forgot about the strategic values. Islands are important like hell. Especially early in the game.
 
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Sterkarm said:
You, on the other hand, are only an insolent little punk in my mind. I've said this in much nicer ways before, but now I don't care anymore. You need to learn a lesson or you'll keep destroying games.

Personal insults like that are not allowed here.

Judging from the last three pages of this thread you guys had a disagreement but kept it nice till so far, that just ended.
If you disagree with a player behaving in a certain way, you can boot him from a game or solve it in other ways, but you're not going to post abusive language here.
 

BurningEGO

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Sterkarm said:
You have no right commenting as negatively as you have on Trav's or any player's actions which occurred before you joined this game. As for Trav refusing your deals, that is HIS choice. Whether it pisses you off or not, they're his provinces to trade or not. Furthermore, either you're being secretive about it, or you just aren't that bright. Consider the location of the Canaries... they're MUCH more valuable than all of the other provs Trav lost (as well as Savoie). That's just another reason you should keep your mouth shut.

Well, this is my fault, but i forgot to mention that i also offered him MA as part of the agreement. He refused. He just told me "you already annexed the balearic island when i was away, i am not giving any more province to you".

Sterkarm said:
Furthermore, if you think a 3v1 war against Traveler was justified, but a 3v1 war against Hungary wasn't, then tell me, what's the difference? I personally think that gangs are simply part of the game and they are no reason to label other players as cheap or cowardly. However, I am against hypocrites, which you seem to be (from my point of view).

The difference? I would NEVER do this to him if he didn't do this to Hungary before. I could bail out Italy alone, if you reload i had a crap load of money (and also had the 3rd biggest manpower by then, before burgundy joined in the game again). I prefered to waste it on manus, and let the burgundians do the dirty work for me. I only besieged north africa and the canaries. Most of the battles in italy were done by Burgundy and England. Another thing, i am not totaly against gang bangs. Just this Sunday, i was gang banged as Russia in a 4v1 war, by Prussia, Sweden, Austria and the OE. I was so powerful that i beated them all. The gang bang was justified, but was pretty useless. Austria ended being reduced to 1 province because their government fell, Prussia had to give hinterpommern and poznan, Sweden is nearly about to loose finland, and the OE had to give up daghestan and a crap load of provinces to persia. But gang banging a country such as Hungary, can't be justified. Poland alone could deal with Hungary on its own. But then Byz and Ita joining in... Oh well. This is what i really hate. So i had to teach Traveler by dowing him this way. When Hungary was gang banged, they didn't leave, and they would have to keep their heads low because they would loose a couple of provinces. Now, Traveler is gang banged, refused to sign peace even at -99 WS, and then leaves? Honestly, like i said before, all provinces i wanted so far, were provinces he took from Lurken on CK. More then fair. He took them when Lurken was AIed. I really don't see if it was a reason for leaving.

Sterkarm said:
Now, Traveler most certainly should not have quit, your actions didn't justify that. That being said, you are the reason he left, not necessarily because of your in-game concrete actions, but because of how you acted towards him. I've told you this before: learn your place. You should never come into a group of players who have been playing together for a year straight and act as though you are the GM, not to mention your insulting of numerous players within this group, including KOM, Trav, and myself.

I know i am the reason why he left... You think i liked that? I just kept spamming him in ICQ, and he didn't even bother speaking. I bet he can't see my face (now i repeat, if it wasn't for KoM, Dominus and a lot of other people wanting to keep me in the game, i wasn't currently playing because Traveler didn't want me to. After Traveler said he didn't want me to play the game right when we were about to play, i just left. But since a majority of players wanted to give me a "second chance", traveler had to allow me to play (or so i think), so i joined again. For that, i am forever thankful to KoM and Dominus). What do you want me to do about traveler leaving? Give back all the provinces i took back from Italy? Also, when did i EVER insult KoM? You still have to tell me that. The only people i insulted were you, Trav and the Byz player, but it seems that you guys don't accept apologies.

Sterkarm said:
I will say this once and for all. Do NOT insult Trav any further. I respected and still respect Trav. You, on the other hand, are only an insolent little punk in my mind. I've said this in much nicer ways before, but now I don't care anymore. You need to learn a lesson or you'll keep destroying games.

As for any in-game effect saying all this may have, if it's negative towards Poland, so be it. I would rather be annexed than keep silent about what I truly feel.

Did i insult him anymore? Could you please quote all insults i made? The only ones so far, were calling him coward. Even so, i asked apologies for that. I know i was "being pushy". And do not worry, i can't do much about Poland, and i wouldn't just annex you just for saying this, even if i could. I think that playing should be taken as working (in my point of view). Personal life doesn't matter. You still need us, and we still need you.
 
Last edited:

Sid Meier

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*sniff* so beautiful. :D

What's Trav's ICQ? Maybe I can get him to join again.
 

Sid Meier

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hey can the first page be edited for some of the updates? Leave trav as italy for now but China should say "Sid Meier aka Han Tzu"....
 

Lurken

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Trav ICQ: 94-746-847

And we cannot edit the first post, only Traveler can.
 

Sid Meier

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heya lurken maybe you wanna play as something? would be cool...
 

King of Men

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Abs, I hate to criticise anyone who gets an AAR written at all, but yours is only 275 words long. To get the reward it must be 500, by the rule. Could you maybe add a bit of detail?
 
Oct 5, 2005
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King of Men said:
Abs, I hate to criticise anyone who gets an AAR written at all, but yours is only 275 words long. To get the reward it must be 500, by the rule. Could you maybe add a bit of detail?

Ah yes, didnt know you had a rule about how long it should be. Ill fill it up with some nonsense. :p
 

Sid Meier

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this is when I suggest an actual system of grading an AAR for content, but then we should have a system of /fail/pass/okay/good system, a tier system of aar rewards.
 

King of Men

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Yes, well, if we were grading for grammar, you better watch out, Blayne. You might lose some money.
 

Sid Meier

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or force me to learn basic grammar.... but I don't think grammar is going to be a prerequsit.