Map Teaser: 29th of April

[Trytols]

I really hope that "primary culture" stuff is removed. To be honest i hope in a total culture change rework.

A compromise can be that cores never expires (unless revoked in peace treaties) or maybe that nations can be released even if the culture in province doesnt match their original one.

 

[Moac]

please tell me buff is the swedish word for fix and we can finaly have a bosnian culture,a more historical transilvanya with cores and stuff and maybe a 10% increase in local base tax around the balkans?

But "Bosnian" is not a culture in that time period, Bosnia is historically only Croats and some Serb populated area (after Ottoman invasion and the conquest of Serbia proper, many Serbs fled into Bosnia).
However, i agree that Balkans needs a huge overhaul in terms of tax and historical events etc. (which Wiz stated to be happening, at least in the development area)
For instance, Croatia in PU with Hungary

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

But "Bosnian" is not a culture in that time period, Bosnia is historically only Croats and some Serb populated area (after Ottoman invasion and the conquest of Serbia proper, many Serbs fled into Bosnia).
However, i agree that Balkans needs a huge overhaul in terms of tax and historical events etc. (which Wiz stated to be happening, at least in the development area)
For instance, Croatia in PU with Hungary

If by spamming you mean that I have posted similar statements in other threads then sure I could stop that, now that I have made a thread on this issue.

never the less, this issue has been around for years and has been pointed out many times and still never changed.
Its just that them changing provinces in Bosnia and adding a province in ¨macedonia¨ it gives me new hope for my cause.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...u-for-cro-under-hun-why.853622/#post-19245721
---
It lasted little, xD

 

[Moac]

If by spamming you mean that I have posted similar statements in other threads then sure I could stop that, now that I have made a thread on this issue.

never the less, this issue has been around for years and has been pointed out many times and still never changed.
Its just that them changing provinces in Bosnia and adding a province in ¨macedonia¨ it gives me new hope for my cause.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...u-for-cro-under-hun-why.853622/#post-19245721
---
It lasted little, xD

old habits die hard , sigh.
Only added it as nudge to the mods/devs that replied to me, out of fun more then nagging.
It will happen if Wiz and his team deem it worthy otherwise I can accept the point of view of those that commented on my thread and I agree with them , mostly.
xD

 

[jrgen3]

From the map in the MP thread you can see what belongs to what.

Looks like Burgundy got its stuff back.

The most interesting part of that is that Brandenburg FINALLY got Altmark!

 

[Homusubi]

Bosnia didnt have a separate culture back then.

There was a post about a year back on this forum which conclusively proved the existence of "Bosnians" in the 1400s. And I wasn't arguing against the Lombard split, it just makes more sense to split it into 3 cultures (and add the Arpitan culture that's been mentioned a few times) than into 4 or 5.

P.S. Disagree x32? Was it something I said?


EDIT: Also, has anyone else noticed Novgorod getting more territory in that MP map? Tver' is no longer an enclave!

 

[Te. Kenzo]

There was a post about a year back on this forum which conclusively proved the existence of "Bosnians" in the 1400s. And I wasn't arguing against the Lombard split, it just makes more sense to split it into 3 cultures (and add the Arpitan culture that's been mentioned a few times) than into 4 or 5.

P.S. Disagree x32? Was it something I said?


EDIT: Also, has anyone else noticed Novgorod getting more territory in that MP map? Tver' is no longer an enclave!

In my opinion the map is still under work, becouse that squared limes beetween finland and sweden\norway not should exist.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

But "Bosnian" is not a culture in that time period, Bosnia is historically only Croats and some Serb populated area (after Ottoman invasion and the conquest of Serbia proper, many Serbs fled into Bosnia).
However, i agree that Balkans needs a huge overhaul in terms of tax and historical events etc. (which Wiz stated to be happening, at least in the development area)
For instance, Croatia in PU with Hungary

Well, in EUIV Timeframe:
The Firts Bosnian Dictionary was written in 1631.
Before EUIV Timeframe:
In 1189 was written a letter in "bosnian" by the bosnian leader Kulin Ban. For me culture = language, (except some cases, when national identy differs a lot, and for avoid thins like CK2 pan-german cultural blob.

 

[Golladan]

In my opinion the map is still under work, becouse that squared limes beetween finland and sweden\norway not should exist.

Probably finished. Wiz posted on twitter 2 days ago that all the map tweaks for the next expansion were finished.

 

[yerm]

There was a post about a year back on this forum which conclusively proved the existence of "Bosnians" in the 1400s.

Well, in EUIV Timeframe:
The Firts Bosnian Dictionary was written in 1631.
Before EUIV Timeframe:
In 1189 was written a letter in "bosnian" by the bosnian leader Kulin Ban. For me culture = language, (except some cases, when national identy differs a lot, and for avoid thins like CK2 pan-german cultural blob.

Can you source this? There's a difference between colloquial dialects or a smattering mix of croat with serb in the region, and an actual unique dialect that I wasn't aware formally existed before the last century. I'd also love this definitive proof that there was a unique Bosnian culture at this time, rather than just a Bosnian region, river or river valley, or kingdom!

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Can you source this? There's a difference between colloquial dialects or a smattering mix of croat with serb in the region, and an actual unique dialect that I wasn't aware formally existed before the last century. I'd also love this definitive proof that there was a unique Bosnian culture at this time, rather than just a Bosnian region, river or river valley, or kingdom!

Yes, The dictionary is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Hevaji_Uskufi_Bosnevi
If you dont like wikipedia:
http://www.human.ba/jsmallfib_top/2...KISH BOSNIAN LEXICOGRAPHIC WORK/Full Text.pdf

 

[Pigeoncount]

I like how every map teaser is immediately followed by complaints about how "Province X should be five provinces, all of which should be different cultures and religions". I can't help but feel that if half of these suggestions were ever followed, they would one, contradict the other half of those suggestions, and two, lead to complaints about the changes not being enough to satiate them.

 

[Metz]

We also need Florence to exist instead of having Tuscany. The events should go that Florence then becomes a Duchy, and then there is an event later on that makes the Duchy of Florence turn into the Grand Duchy of Tuscany.

 

[Moac]

Well, in EUIV Timeframe:
The Firts Bosnian Dictionary was written in 1631.
Before EUIV Timeframe:
In 1189 was written a letter in "bosnian" by the bosnian leader Kulin Ban. For me culture = language, (except some cases, when national identy differs a lot, and for avoid thins like CK2 pan-german cultural blob.

Don't try to misinform people, Ban Kulin was of CROATIAN descent and he spoke Croatian and wrote in Croatian.
"Bosnjaks" are a newly made national identity for the many Muslims (of Croat & Serb descent) that wanted their own unique identity.
Bosnia is nothing and never was anything (historically speaking) other then a Croatian 'domovina' that in various periods of time had its own rulers since Croatia proper was occupied or under control of outside forces. In later periods it had a large influx of Serbs due to Ottoman expansion into the Balkans , but "Bosnjaks" remain mostly just converts, nothing else.

Bosnian is only a regional name for the people, like Dalmatian for people of Dalmacia or Istrians for people of Istria but in the end all of those are Croats.
I say this as a Croatian that is born in Bosnia & Herzegovina.

 

[Rabid]

Swiss provinces are likely Swiss culture because before that the primary nation for Rheinlander was Switzerland.

Yes it is very obvious that the addition of the Swiss culture is for gameplay reasons only - and the previous setup with Burgundian provinces in north Savoy was just as bad historically. There are better solutions but this one seems fine to me.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Don't try to misinform people, Ban Kulin was of CROATIAN descent and he spoke Croatian and wrote in Croatian.
"Bosnjaks" are a newly made national identity for the many Muslims (of Croat & Serb descent) that wanted their own unique identity.
Bosnia is nothing and never was anything (historically speaking) other then a Croatian 'domovina' that in various periods of time had its own rulers since Croatia proper was occupied or under control of outside forces. In later periods it had a large influx of Serbs due to Ottoman expansion into the Balkans , but "Bosnjaks" remain mostly just converts, nothing else.

Bosnian is only a regional name for the people, like Dalmatian for people of Dalmacia or Istrians for people of Istria but in the end all of those are Croats.
I say this as a Croatian that is born in Bosnia & Herzegovina.

Sorry for the letter, it was an error of my for not check the validity of the information. I wanted to have a bosnian culture because I didnt feel right, because in many games Bosnia conquer all Serbia and nothing happens. So, the bosnian dictionary of 1631 means nothing?,

 

[BarskiPatzow]

Sorry for the letter, it was an error of my for not check the validity of the information. I wanted to have a bosnian culture because I didnt feel right, because in many games Bosnia conquer all Serbia and nothing happens. So, the bosnian dictionary of 1631 means nothing?,

By 1631 they already had many muslims in Bosnia. If you can get your hands on that dictionary, read it and compare it to a Serbian dictionary of that time or a Croatian dictionary of that time. Hell, compare all 3 today and you are in for a surprise.

 

[Demetrios]

From the map in the MP thread you can see what belongs to what.

Looks like Burgundy got its stuff back.

Nice to see Burgundy in complete control of Picardy and Namur. It's still a bit off - Franche-Comte should be part of Flanders (since they were part of the same PU) and Hainaut added to Holland (same reason). Brabant looks right, but I'm still not going to agree that Luxembourg should be a PU instead of being owned outright by Burgundy.

Hopefully the lack of an independent Montferrat on both that map and the header map in this thread is merely a temporary situation...

 

[Nucky]

French vassals seem to be gone for real... And I was hoping for some wastelands in the alps, Khyber pass style. Would have been great with the new fortress system.

 

[Moac]

Sorry for the letter, it was an error of my for not check the validity of the information. I wanted to have a bosnian culture because I didnt feel right, because in many games Bosnia conquer all Serbia and nothing happens. So, the bosnian dictionary of 1631 means nothing?,

No need to be sorry , friend, I am not a student of history nor should my posts be taken as full truth. History is often written by the victors and what is truly truth is not easily known. I am sorry if i came of a bit harsh there, didn't mean it come of like that.

It would be great if "ethnicity" and culture groups in the game had separate indicates but they don´t so its hard to decide what the meaning of "culture group" really is? Is it ethnic belonging?

I would need to take a closer look at that dictionary ,but in the end scholars 'unbiased' would need to examine documents and compare them with other truths then publish it in peer reviews.
Even then its hard to tell the truth from wishful thinking and political correctness.