Map Teaser - 22nd of April 2015

[Me_]

Wait a minute. Konigsberg is now the capital of Teutonic Order from 1444?

 

[jrgen3]

That would imply an overhaul to how populations are handled, and as a result having more than one culture and religion in each province.

Not really, because 1000 colonists is unlikely to make a majority in the vast majority of the provinces if somewhat historical-ish rough guesstimates were used for the population in those provinces (anything better is simply not available. Estimations on the pre-Colombian New Worlds population vary so much that it's almost fun to read them. Always something new!).

 

[matissvein]

Not really, because 1000 colonists is unlikely to make a majority in the vast majority of the provinces if somewhat historical-ish rough guesstimates were used for the population in those provinces (anything better is simply not available. Estimations on the pre-Colombian New Worlds population vary so much that it's almost fun to read them. Always something new!).

Why only almost interesting?

 

[Gurluas]

Zemaitija is no longer touching the ocean, rendering Lithuania land locked o.o

 

[matissvein]

It never was, only in CK2

 

[jrgen3]

Why only almost interesting?

I guess you are right. It's quite interesting to read, but I think it would be more interesting if we had some more knowledge about it.

Zemaitija is no longer touching the ocean, rendering Lithuania land locked o.o

Not sure what you mean. Lithuania has always been landlocked in EUIV.

 

[Mafiabrett]

That would imply an overhaul to how populations are handled, and as a result having more than one culture and religion in each province.

Thats one thing I always loved about Vicky 2, the pie graph per province. EU4 at this point in time I think is unable to do such a thing without completely remaking the game ground up.. so I can only hope that EU5 does something similar. It would be a much more complex (and personally more fun for me as I'm a statistic/ledger geek in some ways)

 

[matissvein]

I guess you are right. It's quite interesting to read, but I think it would be more interesting if we had some more knowledge about it.

Not sure what you mean. Lithuania has always been landlocked in EUIV.

No, there is the crimea in south.

 

[chrnno]

Zemaitija is no longer touching the ocean, rendering Lithuania land locked o.o

I guess you are right. It's quite interesting to read, but I think it would be more interesting if we had some more knowledge about it.

Not sure what you mean. Lithuania has always been landlocked in EUIV.

It got coastal provinces in the Black Sea in 1.8.

EDIT: And ninja'ed.

 

[Shatterfury]

Regarding the Transylvanian issue, to avoid a cultural border gore, it had been suggested to create a Transylvanian culture in the Hungarian group, to represent the very specific melting polt of Hugarian nobles, "Saxon" burghers and Székelys as the ruling class (while peasants were mostly Romanians). This would make the Hungarian group more interesting, and would be less silly than one Saxon province here, a Romanian there and everything surrounded by Hungarian, imho.
There is even historical basis for this, according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unio_Trium_Nationum


I would even argue for Romanian to be added in this larger Hungarian-Transylvanian cultural group. The Danubian principalties had more links to Hungary than the likes of Serbia and Croatia. With Hungarian in the west, Romanian in the east, and Transylvanian in the middle where things are really complicated culture-wise, you'd have a nice cultural group. (I suggest Vlach-Hungarian as a name, but I'm not married to it)

If they redesign the provinces around the actual places the Székelys and Germans settled I don`t see a problem.

The Union Trium Nationum was done against the Romanian peasants, not with them in mind.

 

[Grand Historian]

Thats one thing I always loved about Vicky 2, the pie graph per province. EU4 at this point in time I think is unable to do such a thing without completely remaking the game ground up.. so I can only hope that EU5 does something similar. It would be a much more complex (and personally more fun for me as I'm a statistic/ledger geek in some ways)

I was just thinking something more simple along the lines of each Base Tax being a sort of 'citizen', to borrow Civ terms, or demographic, each with its own culture and religion.

 

[jrgen3]

No, there is the crimea in south.

Yeah, but that's literally on the other side of the European peninsula. I thought we were talking about Lithuania proper.

 

[Grand Historian]

Regarding the Transylvanian issue, to avoid a cultural border gore, it had been suggested to create a Transylvanian culture in the Hungarian group, to represent the very specific melting polt of Hugarian nobles, "Saxon" burghers and Székelys as the ruling class (while peasants were mostly Romanians). This would make the Hungarian group more interesting, and would be less silly than one Saxon province here, a Romanian there and everything surrounded by Hungarian, imho.
There is even historical basis for this, according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unio_Trium_Nationum


I would even argue for Romanian to be added in this larger Hungarian-Transylvanian cultural group. The Danubian principalties had more links to Hungary than the likes of Serbia and Croatia. With Hungarian in the west, Romanian in the east, and Transylvanian in the middle where things are really complicated culture-wise, you'd have a nice cultural group. (I suggest Vlach-Hungarian as a name, but I'm not married to it)

It would also mean that Magyar would no longer have only one culture in it, which is perfectly fine by me.

 

[matissvein]

Ok, then... They never had anyright for Palanga then.
GIVE LATVIA PALANGA BACK!!!

 

[Me_]

I was just thinking something more simple along the lines of each Base Tax being a sort of 'citizen', to borrow Civ terms, or demographic, each with its own culture and religion.

An interesting idea. So 12 basetax Danzig could be 8 basetax Prussian, 4 basetax Polish, for example. I think that it could actually work pretty well.

 

[jrgen3]

An interesting idea. So 12 basetax Danzig could be 8 basetax German, 4 basetax Polish, for example. I think that it could actually work pretty well.

With the current borders it would be more the opposite.

 

[matissvein]

But how 'bout the 2 or even 1 base tax multi-culturals?

 

[Mafiabrett]

I was just thinking something more simple along the lines of each Base Tax being a sort of 'citizen', to borrow Civ terms, or demographic, each with its own culture and religion.

AH! So let me try to use a example to this.. Lets use Constantinople after Ottomans conquer it. In game events could let you choose to kick out cultures from province, let more move in, etc.

(Just a example as I'm not a expert on real population numbers)
Total Base Tax = 14, then below is how the total is split up per culture in that province.
Turkish = 6
Greek = 4
Serbian = 2
Armenian = 1
Lombard = 1

 

[MiniaAr]

If they redesign the provinces around the actual places the Székelys and Germans settled I don`t see a problem.

The Union Trium Nationum was done against the Romanian peasants, not with them in mind.

Indeed the Union was one of the ruling-classes against the dominant in numbers but dominated in power Romanian people. But as culture in EUIV is supposed to represent culture of the ruling class, this seems to me a pertinent suggestion.

What you suggest would make a cultural map striking out, with singleton-culture provinces and 3 distincts cultural groups in very close vicinity, which doesn't really exist at the moment in EUIV.

 

[Me_]

With the current borders it would be more the opposite.

Whatever, 10 Prussian, 2 Polish. It was just an example.

But how 'bout the 2 or even 1 base tax multi-culturals?

Nothing. You can't fix everything. Better a system good for 80% of the map that the current one fitting maybe 40% at best.