You appear to have missed the winking smiley on that post, which makes the not-terribly-subtle joke completely blatant.
Map Teaser - 20th of May 2015
- Thread starter Wizzington
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Denmark could need provinces? You do realise that during this era sweden eclipses denmark polulation wise? Denmark didn't hit it's first million until 1800, sweden hit theirs in the 1600ds. No nordic country needs more provinces. They could use a few more cultures though. The cultural homogeneity didn't really kick in until after reformation.
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I was not seriously suggesting to add 4 provinces to Navarra.
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I think Scandinavia's province density is quite sactisfactory already. Finland's borders tho get pretty atrocious once someone else starts expandind there, so I guess they could use some smoothening, although not necessarily in the form of more provinces.
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Denmark in 1444 had a much higher population compared to Sweden than today. A very large part of the population imbalance between Sweden and Denmark happened because Sweden took Skåneland. Had Sweden given Denmark Skåneland today, their populations would be almost exactly the same.
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Not to mention what land do you include in those numbers, is Swedens 1 million in 1650 with Finland? Is Denmark without Slesvig-Holsten? Does Sweden count in land in Northern Germany? Like, any numbers on Wiki doesn't tell what area it is counting. If it's exactly modern borders, then it doesn't account for Skåne, Halland and Blekinge being the Danish heartland at the start of the game.
Denmark could definitely stand to have as many, with Scania included, provinces as Sweden, without Finland, has.
Edit: And I completely forgot to mention Båhuslen, Jemtland and Gotland which further muddies the water.
I know its a real place, its where Tatooine gets its name. I'm just saying that they may have chosen it over other cities in the area like Medenine because Star Wars.
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Spain OP, good bye France. As a Spain player, this is the best changes you could have made. More provinces to develop for Spain. Suck it French frogs.
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Yea, combined with El Dorado, Spain will be a really cool choice to try this expansion. Focusing on making a powerful but not large nation, with strategic forts on the north against France, building a naval supremacy for the Americas and eventually going India or Filipinas in a nice and relaxing campaign.
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The more people speak of provinces as if they had a fixed value of worth the more I feel like hoping they literally only split up the existing province's base tax, production and manpower into the new provinces despite me feeling a boost for the cases shown so far makes sense. Probably not going to happen due that reason among others but would be a nice way of showing the new development system.
Wikipedia my good man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Denmark
It could contain finnland and pommeria (as well as the baltic, remember Riga was swedens second largest city) but then again the loss of those areas don't seem to make that much of a dent in the increase.
Also by the time denmark hit their first million sweden has 2.5 million (granted including the recently conquered norway).
If we assume the swedish increase 1650-1700 was only skåneland then it was rougly 250.000 people. If we add that the the earliest danish number we get just over a million. But that's adding denmarks population over a century after they lost those provinces. In all likelyhood denmark was skirting the million for a really long time, their population growth compensating for the landloss. While sweden post independce were growing constantly.
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Hence the wording eclipses not eclipsed, during the era sweden passes denmark population wise. Also sweden has 1.200.000 prior to getting skåneland, while denmark at my estimate (by adding swedens full increase of the period they got it to denmark's first datapoint, a century later) ends up at 1.050.000 prior to losing skåneland. Thus sweden had already passed. And that's a generous estimate for pre peace of roskilde denmark.
Granted as I said earlier this includes the baltcoast, finland and swedish pommeria.
If you include all of that territory to Sweden, you also have to add Norway's about 450k and Iceland's about 50k to Denmark.
No it was there from the beginning. It was supposed to be mainly a joke. I'm mostly satisfied with the province density these are just areas where you possibly could add provinces. I'm just unsatisfied with borders and city placements atm.
Scandinavia is in no need for more provinces yet.
You do realize these numbers are for modern landmasses and doesn't take into account the land held by Sweden and Denmark at the start of the game, right? Sweden hold Jemtland, Herjedalen, Båhuslen, Idre & Særna, Skåne, Halland, Blekinge and Gotland today, land it by no means either had right to, had held before or was necessarily interested in at the start of the game. Your position couldn't possibly be any more dishonest. Modern Denmark and Modern Sweden are night and day to medieval Denmark and Sweden. Sweden eclipsed Denmark due to conquered territory, not some magical population boom that inexplicably can't be seen on a modern population density map today.
And Denmark today is without half of Slesvig and all of Holsten / Skåneland / Gotland / Estland, land not included in those numbers for 1600. It's likely none of Slesvig is even included because of the legal definition of the Kingdom of Denmark in the 17th century. Again, your numbers hold no water.
And Holstein and Indian colonies and so on and so on. His numbers are meaningless as they are undefined or modernly defined.
Edit: So I went to Danish Statistics Bank, and looked at the numbers for 1769 and it is without Slesvig, Holsten and Faroese Islands, Norway, Iceland and any other land held by the crown. It is only the literal definition of Kingdom of Denmark, i.e. Jutland and Islands so without the Duchies of Slesvig and Holsten. And that is 800k. Now go ahead and add the rest and scale back.
Edit2: Checked the Swedish source http://runeberg.org/sverig01/0106.html It explicitly states it is within modern borders and is an estimate.
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Everything in the past is an estimate. And if it's only the modern borders then it's even more true. We were talking about how the provinces in sweden and denmark were to be structured and then it's is beyond doubt that the population of the provinces of the swedish mainland eclipses the ones on the danish peninsula in this era. If you want to bring in the colonies then you should aks for more provinces in those, not in denmark. Denmark and Sweden are fine. In fact if there's nordic countries that could use provinces it's norway and finland not denmark or sweden.
And there is a population boom, since the same land is counted all the time in the swedish one you can litteraly see the population boom. And it's not so strange sweden simply had more lebensraum than denmark.
Also for all that it was populous sweden actually moved people into skåneland post conquest, as means of cementing their hold on the land. the residential capital of Blekinge, Karlskrona (incidently where I grew up) was founded almost exclusivly by swedes moved in from other parts of sweden (mainly finland and the balt states). And in the 1700s that was the third largest city in the entire kingdom (after stockholm and riga).
Also the scandinavias needs more cultures. Icelandic, Dalish (from Dalarna) and Scanian (is actually not a mix of danish and swedish but a remenant of a language of it's own). Preferly with revolter tags.
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Talking about the "Swedish mainland" and the "Danish peninsula" is completely irrelevant though, because Skåneland was, with Zealand, the heartland of Denmark and not in any sense part of Sweden. You are right about Sweden and Denmark, they don't technically need more provinces, but the Danish ones are way too poor when compared to Sweden (you can't argue that Denmark didn't have by far the largest economy of the Nordic Countries in 1444). I am completely against adding more provinces to Norway and Sweden. They are both wastelands (being Norwegian myself and spending many summer vacations in Sweden, so I know what wastelands they are). Norway and Sweden are extremely overrepresented in this game, and I hope they won't recieve more. Finland could need 1 or MAAYBE 2 provinces and a reshaping of the current ones. Adding an Insular Scandinavian culture would be the only one I would ever consider adding in this region, and even that would be somewhat difficult to justify in 1444, when Norwegian was much closer to current Icelandic. The glorious Danification process was about to start, and by the end of the game, Norway was basically Danish cultured, while Iceland retained its Norwegian one.
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