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Grand Historian

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Though I do like most of the map as it is, there are a few regions I think can still use some work. One in particular would be Greece, specifically Epirus/Albania. This is my suggestion as to how I think it can be improved, and please excuse my lack of skill with paint:

Greece%20Edit.jpg


Key:
Aetolia from Epirus; in 1444 the Despotate of Epirus still clinged on stubbornly in the south in 1444, holding a large portion of the coast, the surrounding islands, and a few key forts and cities inland. Likewise, the form Greece decision should drop Epirus/Yanya as a requirement and instead need this province (it should also include Euboea, as I find it strange that Naxos is needed but not Euboea).

Peloponnesus from Achaea; Corinth was a strategically important key to both the Principality of Achaea, Byzantine Empire and later the Ottoman Empire and Venetian Morea, and was also heavily defended. Should also be required for the form Greece decision.

Christoupolis from Edrine; to separate the western corridor, allow for neater borders, and resolve the issue of starting out with two forts next to each other.

Durrazo from Albania; a key Venetian outpost in the Adriatic. This would a): give Albanian another province, b): give Venice a slight buff, and c): hopefully have the Venetians view Albania as a potential buffer against the Ottomans instead of something to eat like they did historically.

Lezhë from Albania (with the southern third under Ottoman control and being renamed Vlorë): in addition to point a from above, this would also give Albania a shadow buff, and help clean up the messy borders of the awkward looking current setup (I.E: have clean borders if you expand northwards as Greece or southwards as Serbia, or carve up the Adriatic coast as Venice).

Nicosia from Cyprus (with the southern half being renamed Limassol); Cyprus was another strategically important position in this time, being fought over by the Genoese, Venetians and Ottomans, in part for its status as a key trade outpost and naval base, and the fact it could be used as a staging ground for further Venetian excursions. The Aleppo node also only has one CoT, so I feel that Nicosia could be made one to better emphasize its strategic position and encourage more competition over it.

And a Cypriot culture with Cyprus as its primary culture; after centuries of Latin Rule, Cyprus had developed its own unique culture from the rest of Greece, taking heavy Latin influences, and the rulers began to view themselves as locals as well. This would also solve the problem of Byzantium popping up in Cyprus (which would also be consistent with history, since the Kingdom of Cyprus suffered no major revolts as far as I know of).

I would also like to suggest a few changes to the Greek/Turkish areas, in part for neater borders:
Morea and Thrace should remain unchanged, save for the inclusion of Peloponnesus and Christoupolis.

Nothern Greece should be done away with: Thessaly should be moved into the Macedonia area, while Aetolia, Epirus, Corfu and Vlorë should become a new Epirus area.

Albania should become an area, consisting of Durrazo, Lezhë and Zeta, while Uskup is moved into the Serbia region.

Eastern Aegean and Western Aegean should simply be merged into a single Aegean area, consisting of Crete, Naxos, Euboea, Chios and Rhodes.

Possibly rename Hudavendigar to Bithynia, and have it consist of Biga, Hudavendigar, Kocaeli and Bolu. Possibly rename Aydin to Asia Minor as well. Aydin never encompassed all of Asia Minor as an administrative region, and Hudavendigar was only made an Eyalet in 1827 - six years after the game's completion.

Pontus as an area, consisting of Trebizond, Canik and Sinop. Kastamonu should be joined with Ankara and Kutahya into an Anatolia area.

Finally, the Dulkadir area should be divided: Kayseri should go to Rum, Maras should be joined with Adana and Icel to form a Cilicia area, and Malatya should be folded into Erzurum.
 
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ThePatriotOfDreumel

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Great ideas!
 

Demetrios

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Another good reason for adding Aetolia would be to help make the game more accurate if the timeline was shifted back; from 1358 to 1416, the Despotate of Arta existed to some degree in the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Arta


The Despotate of Epirus (which was a different state) still existed in the region at the game's start, although it was about to lose most of its mainland provinces to the Ottomans within a few years (Arta was lost in 1449, and the last mainland possession by 1479).

EDIT, which I see the OP stated, having neglected to open up what was in the spoilers...
 

Grand Historian

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Another good reason for adding Aetolia would be to help make the game more accurate if the timeline was shifted back; from 1358 to 1416, the Despotate of Arta existed to some degree in the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Arta

While it would be nice, the problem is that would be an Albanian state with cores on only a Greek province, making it impossible to release.

The Despotate of Epirus (which was a different state) still existed in the region at the game's start, although it was about to lose most of its mainland provinces to the Ottomans within a few years (Arta was lost in 1449, and the last mainland possession by 1479).

EDIT, which I see the OP stated, having neglected to open up what was in the spoilers...

Sorry about that, I like putting keys and whatnot in spoilers to make the post easier to read.
 

PiriReis

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That Durazzo province is too small for gameplay reasons (clicking). I would suggest also adding those small (Dodecanese) islands to the province of Rhodes for historical reasons and add a strait from Tirhala to Euboea given the proximity between the two provinces.
 
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Grand Historian

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That Durazzo province is too small for gameplay reasons (clicking). I would suggest also adding those small (Dodecanese) islands to the province of Rhodes for historical reasons and add a strait from Tirhala to Euboea given the proximity between the two provinces.

Durrazzo wouldn't be any smaller than Rhodes/Corfu/Venice/etc, nothing that can't be solved by simply scrolling in. I always did find it odd that the Dodecanese Islands weren't part of Rhodes, so good job catching that!

A straight between Thessaly and Euboea might make it a bit too easy for the Turks to invade Venetian holdings at start, though I can't be certain.
 

Grand Historian

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Out of curiosity, what's the general opinion about the possibility of a Gallipoli province?
 

zdlugasz

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ehm...
Wouldn't some of those provinces be rather smallish? And then you can have armies on both provinces on Cyprus and want to select land under them or even one army not another.
 

Grand Historian

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ehm...
Wouldn't some of those provinces be rather smallish? And then you can have armies on both provinces on Cyprus and want to select land under them or even one army not another.

There is such a thing as scrolling in, and they wouldn't be any smaller than some of the provinces already ingame.
 
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zdlugasz

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There is such a thing as scrolling in, and they wouldn't be any smaller than some of the provinces already ingame.

Which does not mean that more micro provinces is better. And constant scrolling back and forth is not what I like to do.
 
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Grand Historian

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In my opinion, the more provinces, the better! :D Durazzo isn't even all that small and will be definitely easier to click on than Rhodes or Venice.
By the way, shouldn't Chalkidiki be a province as well? Edirne could use a split too.

Thank you!

As for Edrine, I agree, but the question is whether to cut out Christoupolis (western corridor) or Gallipoli (southern strait).
 

Anani

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I think current Turkish names are okay. Ottomans are going to conquer the whole region anyway, so the having asia minor, cilicia regions are weird.
 
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Grand Historian

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I think current Turkish names are okay. Ottomans are going to conquer the whole region anyway, so the having asia minor, cilicia regions are weird.

I think it's even weirder to have names for regions that never even encompassed the areas they represented in EU4's period.

I would like to see dynamic region naming, though.
 

Grand Historian

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Which does not mean that more micro provinces is better. And constant scrolling back and forth is not what I like to do.

The majority of them aren't micro, though - I created the picture by using the country selection screen, meaning I haven't had a chance to scroll in or out yet (and really, you're going to be doing a lot of scrolling if you're playing EU4 regardless of the province size). The only one that would really qualify as being micro would be Durazzo, and even then it's easier to click on than most of the islands in the region.
 
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Slight update/edit; added in Christoupolis.
 

wingren013

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My problem with Lezze is that its kind of a nerf. You are spreading out their development of multiple provinces with only one having a fort and they still have the lack of strategic depth. They are better off having a single mountain province to defend. Durrazo is fine though.
 

Grand Historian

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My problem with Lezze is that its kind of a nerf. You are spreading out their development of multiple provinces with only one having a fort and they still have the lack of strategic depth. They are better off having a single mountain province to defend. Durrazo is fine though.

Well, more provinces doesn't strictly mean that all of Albania's development has to be divided. As it's already a OPM that also holds the only province with its culture, I don't see a reason to not slightly increase Albanian development and keep the fort in Lezze/Albania.

And even then, it's probably not going to change the outcome from the current setup anyways; Albania gets swallowed by either Venice of the Ottomans, first come first serve. At least this way they have a greater chance to survive and more provinces to rebel in (and it would make Albanian easier to accept).
 
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