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Karlingid

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I think the Arabs and Berbers need to be different. The Egyptians and Levantine as well possibly.

I may not know enough about population records, but weren't Assyrians still a majority population in Iraq and Syria during the early medieval period? Ive always wondered about that... And why they arn't in the game

I've been talking about this for a couple years by now. I've made several proposals to overhaul the entire Middle East and Africa. The basic answer to your questions:

1) Yes, although it was Assyrians in Iraq and Arameans in Syria. They both spoke Aramaic, but the Assyrian dialect is/was heavily influenced by Akkadian, even down to names.

2) They aren't in the game because the Mideast hasn't been updated properly since launch. It's been, as far as I can remember, mostly there as the game was designed when it was Christian-only games: simple broad strokes to represent AI groups, noting the difference in culture between Arabia and the Levant but not going too in-detail for a region meant to be conquered only.

As for the gent you're responding too: I agree. Berbers should definitely use different portraits, and their cultures should be balkanized a bit too. Tuaregs could use East African, for example, to replicate dark skin with Afro-Asiatic heritage. Levantines should use Mediterranean portraits, just as the Israelites do. Egyptians...is a tough call, I feel like a clothing pack more than a portrait back would be appropriate for them. I mean, we can't lose our pharaoh-beards, can we?
 

Karlingid

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Also, for the record everyone, the French are vastly descended from a distinctly Celtic population base. The Gauls, who underwent Romanization independently of the Frankish dominance, make up the modern various population groups of France except the Basques and Bretons, the former of which is a Paleoeuropean survivor group and the latter is Cornish settlers.

The descendants of the Franks are still around today, however: The Dutch

EDIT: Mind, the Dutch are the primary direct ancestors and are the ones who've upkept cultural and linguistic legacy. Populations in, say, Franconia would almost certainly display ancestry as well.
 
Last edited:

Moarice

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Also, for the record everyone, the French are vastly descended from a distinctly Celtic population base. The Gauls, who underwent Romanization independently of the Frankish dominance, make up the modern various population groups of France except the Basques and Bretons, the former of which is a Paleoeuropean survivor group and the latter is Cornish settlers.
Corsicans and the people in overseas territories too? :p
 

TheGreatSnoop

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2. Anglo-Saxons were unique melting pot of the Angles, the Britons, the Jutes, the Romano-Britons and the Saxons Hence they embodied elements from the Celts, the Germans and the Latins.

Unless the Roman Empire made a point of importing mass numbers of Roman citizens from what is now Italy, then the Latin element shouldn't be included in that list. As a whole the population would have probably just been the same Celtic population who were there when the Romans originally conquered what is now England and Wales.
 

CrackdToothGrin

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Normans will have English portraits while Anglo-Saxons and the French will stay with vanilla. Which is rather impractical...

1. Normans were ethnically far more similar to the French than the Anglo-Saxons were to the French.
2. Anglo-Saxons were unique melting pot of the Angles, the Britons, the Jutes, the Romano-Britons and the Saxons Hence they embodied elements from the Celts, the Germans and the Latins.
3. In every start date Anglo-Saxons have been melting longer than the Normans.
4. Frequent Anglo-French marriages would have secure their similarity.

Essentially it had made far more sense to give the English portraits to the Anglo-Saxons instead of Normans.

I think you're looking into the "genetics" of this far too much. I have 10-12 "slots" to make faces to represent a "culture" and all the range that exists within just one sliver of an ethnicity and it's not easy. I can find more variation in natural skin tone in my family reunions than I can in this game. If a portrait pack gets brought up as something for me to make, I make it as requested. I know people seem to be asking for a "redo" of the defaults, but for many years the direct opposite was the case. Truth be told, you could probably make a generic "European" face set for most of Europe and it would work just fine. The English set was made for the middle period Anglo-Norman English and isn't a statement on the ethnicity of the native inhabitants of the British Isles.

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure most of the portrait rehash mods are probably going to swap out the defaults for one or both of the new sets within the next 24-48 hours as they get updated to release compatibility.

As for the gent you're responding too: I agree. Berbers should definitely use different portraits, and their cultures should be balkanized a bit too. Tuaregs could use East African, for example, to replicate dark skin with Afro-Asiatic heritage. Levantines should use Mediterranean portraits, just as the Israelites do. Egyptians...is a tough call, I feel like a clothing pack more than a portrait back would be appropriate for them. I mean, we can't lose our pharaoh-beards, can we?

None of what I'm about to show is an official product of sorts - just textures I'm working on in downtime - but some of these requests may be addressed in at least mods in the future. I'm always working on something.

5N3DWwO.png

1626sg1.png
 

Karlingid

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Corsicans and the people in overseas territories too? :p

Well of course! Corsica is just "Gallica" with careful spelling, and the Tahitians?

Totally Celtic.
I think you're looking into the "genetics" of this far too much. I have 10-12 "slots" to make faces to represent a "culture" and all the range that exists within just one sliver of an ethnicity and it's not easy. I can find more variation in natural skin tone in my family reunions than I can in this game. If a portrait pack gets brought up as something for me to make, I make it as requested. I know people seem to be asking for a "redo" of the defaults, but for many years the direct opposite was the case. Truth be told, you could probably make a generic "European" face set for most of Europe and it would work just fine. The English set was made for the middle period Anglo-Norman English and isn't a statement on the ethnicity of the native inhabitants of the British Isles.

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure most of the portrait rehash mods are probably going to swap out the defaults for one or both of the new sets within the next 24-48 hours as they get updated to release compatibility.



None of what I'm about to show is an official product of sorts - just textures I'm working on in downtime - but some of these requests may be addressed in at least mods in the future. I'm always working on something.

5N3DWwO.png

1626sg1.png

As always, they are absolutely beautiful.
 

CatilinamSum

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Any speculation on the next portrait packs?

Seems reasonable to think that they'll pertain to the new Tibet provinces. Maybe they'll do another double pack and also add something for Europe... South or West Slavs would be really nice.

Perhaps better than a Tibet pack would be a general "Sinicized" pack that not only covers the new Bodpa/Tangut cultures, but also the existing Khitan culture.
 

Wixelt

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Baltic portraits would be the logical next pack, since they currently use the Finno-Ugric pack which really doesn't fit in for the area.
 

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Shouldn't Frisians and Saxons use the Germanic Portraits too?
 

TheDungen

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Shouldn't Frisians and Saxons use the Germanic Portraits too?
They may not be compatiable with the clothing packs those have already gotten.
 

Sonmi

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Baltic portraits would be the logical next pack, since they currently use the Finno-Ugric pack which really doesn't fit in for the area.
I'd say separating Berbers from Arabs is a bigger priority.
Levantines too.
And Tibetans/Khitans from Mongols.
And Western/Yugoslavs from the vanilla pack.
And Hungarians from the vanilla pack as well.
 
Last edited:

TheDungen

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I'd say separating Berbers from Arabs is a bigger priority.
Levantines too.
And Tibetans/Khitans from Mongols.
And Western/Yugoslavs from the vanilla pack.
And Hungarians from the vanilla pack as well.
Egyptians from arabs.