Map Projection for CK3

[Alesayr]

Which projection do you think they'll use for the third installment of the series when it comes out in (probably 2022 I guess?) I honestly can't imagine them using the same projection again, as Doomdark has said that the whole Old World wants to be included in the game, and that while CK2 doesn't have the power to add China etc (in my opinion and others, lets not get into it) there is a pretty decent chance that East Asia will be in CK3 at some point.
The current projection would make Asia look really really strange and twisted, and is a little odd even with the current map size. What do you guys think?

 

[Dr Gonzo]

I think you're right about the current projection not working with an expanded map. I suppose a move to something closer to the EU IV projection would probably make sense.

Even so, while I know the ambition of including the whole of the Old World is one the developers have talked about, I feel like CK 3 would have to be a very different game to CK 2 to allow the mechanics to be varied enough that playing as Imperial China, say, actually feels distinct and half way realistic. The current feudal based system will need expansion and perhaps a total rethink to make it fit with the far eastern states.

Still, that will hopefully mean that we can look forward to a similar redesign of how things such as Byzantium and the early Frankish empire work.

 

[_Perun_]

Let us not forget CK2 is a game and as such it uses variables and definitions to create an environment in which feudal simulation is possible. Reflecting the environment in every detail does not improve a game as such but improves its value as a document. An actual game requires simplifications for intuitive handling. And this particular game requires simplifications even more to allow modern gamers to have an immersive experience without profound knowledge about history of politics, culture and religion. I believe that after reaching a certain threshold in reflecting reality the effort to make a game more enjoyable through more details grows exponentially, while the actual joy is reduced only to initial novelty enthusiasm.
From this perspective expanding CK2 with new lands may seem reasonable. The engine is extremely flexible, there is no reason to think it cannot handle China. The problem is size of the task. It is not we are talking about Tibet here.

 

[Crenickator]

Well, hopefully CK3 will be made with a new engine, and also hopefully, they might be able to do away with map projections altogether and represent the world with an actual sphere, and zooming in will make it look more or less flat. Something like Google Earth does.
But perhaps that is too much to ask. I know not the technical limitations of such a thing.

Have to say I enjoy my rectangular maps, and wouldn't want a Robinson-esque or any other projection that, to me, leaves a lot of dead area around the map to make up for distortion. Something like Equirectangular or Miller works for me. Good, straight lines, and not as much distortion as, say, Mercator.

I see that Google Earth uses Web Mercator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Mercator

 

[Fishman786]

Remember that the map 'projection' has to a) minimise the amount of Sahara taking up the playable area whilst keeping Arabia and India, b) exclude as much of the Atlantic Ocean as possible whilst keeping Iceland, c) exclude as much of Siberia as possible whilst keeping Scandinavia, d) keep provinces large enough to click on whilst ensuring a decent province density across most of the map, and e) make sure Sweden is overpowered. I don't think there is a real map projection that will allow the devs to do those things.

Also I really don't think adding China makes any sense at all. Currently the map has quite a nice natural eastern border, or at least had one before Horse Lords expanded into the Tarim Basin and Mongolia. If China was added, it's not possible to have a natural border as you'd need to start including countries immediately to the south and east of China like Korea and Vietnam. Then you'd need to add in their neighbours in Manchuria, Japan, Cambodia, Burma, Thailand. Then you'd need to add in even more countries in Indonesia and Malaysia. To have China you would need to keep going and basically add every single country between the Wallace Line and Lake Baikal and all the individual counties and holdings they have. In EUIV it's doable since the scale is different, an EUIV province is perhaps the size of a CKII duchy. And you don't have separate holdings in EUIV either. With CKII it would take an enormous amount of research to just set up the holdings and counties, let alone the characters as well.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

I still don't understand how they will balance China out to not gobble the entire world in any start. In most timelines during the Middle Ages you basically start with at least the equivalent of de jure SPQR, more tech than Constantinople, and more potential 7 holding cities in some regions than the entire continent of Europe.

It'll be interesting to see them try, that's for sure.

 

[Coldfire4134]

they might be able to do away with map projections altogether and represent the world with an actual sphere, and zooming in will make it look more or less flat. Something like Google Earth does.

The only thing that I wonder with that is what will you do with the Americas in a globe? Maybe make it wasteland.

 

[Videogames]

The only thing that I wonder with that is what will you do with the Americas in a globe? Maybe make it wasteland.

Oh, simple - just add in all the Andean and Mesoamerican civilizations to the game. India could use some relief from everyone calling it the region that never affects the rest of the map and just slows down performance

 

[Coldfire4134]

Oh, simple - just add in all the Andean and Mesoamerican civilizations to the game. India could use some relief from everyone calling it the region that never affects the rest of the map and just slows down performance

They could also add sea attrition just enough so that you will never be able to reach it from europe.

 

[thevmag]

I still don't understand how they will balance China out to not gobble the entire world in any start.

Probably the same way as in real life: vast geographic differences, an emphasis on trying to maintain the core Chinese region with some expansion, external and internal threats leading to regular revolts and coups, various factions breaking off to push into the steppes...

Kinduv like how Byzantine is nearly an unending civil war or twelve most games, with some expansion into the steppes if they're stable and losing ground soon after. Being surrounded by mountains, nomadic steppes, deserts and jungles would also make attrition murder for expanding too far out.