Aetius

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Karelia and Karelen use the same name in two different languages, one of them being inexplicably English. Shouldn't it be something like Västra Karelen and Vostok Kareliya or whatever its called in Russian.
 

Hallsten

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Oh yes, that's embarassing...
How about calling the Russian province Far/Eastern Karelia and the Finnish province Southern Karelia?
We are striving to use English names as far as possible, yes?
 

deallus

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Aetius said:
Karelen and Karelia is a bit confusing don't you think?
afaik there is a russian Karelia and a finnish Karelen. Originally one region, but split during wars between Sweden and Russia, and finally joined again after the winter war in 1939. Am I right?

Karelia/Karelen is really more like the entire vanilla Kexholm, Karelia, a bit of Olonets and a bit of Nyland IMO.

Hallsten: What is wrong with vanilla Jämtland? IMO it is the perfect province for Jämtland and Härjedalen, according to where they actually lay and the historical border from when it was norwegian.
 

Hallsten

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deallus said:
afaik there is a russian Karelia and a finnish Karelen. Originally one region, but split during wars between Sweden and Russia, and finally joined again after the winter war in 1939. Am I right?

Karelia/Karelen is really more like the entire vanilla Kexholm, Karelia, a bit of Olonets and a bit of Nyland IMO.

Hallsten: What is wrong with vanilla Jämtland? IMO it is the perfect province for Jämtland and Härjedalen, according to where they actually lay and the historical border from when it was norwegian.

Yes, that's pretty much your Karelia... :)

I thought it was too far south, but maybe it wasn't. Vanilla Jämtland/Härjedalen is however NOT pointy enough... ;)
 

deallus

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img071.jpg


Denmark-Norway and Sweden-Finland about 1600.

I guess we both were a bit right :p
 
Last edited:

Aetius

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What about merging 7 and 9 or at least splitting them another way (into a northern and southern area). The Swedes could get the port connection without the need for a tiny province. The Danes would have to occupy a bit larger area though. We could compensate the Danes with a Halland province.
 

Ges

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Hallsten said:
No, but you are. :)
Care to clarify that?

Just to make sure that everybody knows what others are talking about. This should clarify the problem of naming one province as Karelia.

karja1.jpg


Karelia at the begin of game (1419 red lines). Karelians expanded during 15th and 16th century to the blue line. And russians ate some of her southern and eastern parts in the 16th and 17th century.
 

cool-toxic

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Hallsten said:
1: Holstein - independent nation
2: Schleswig - danish
3: Jylland
4: Själland - bornholm should be a part of själland instead of hinterpommern
5: Skåne
6: Småland
7: Älvsborg - swedish
8: Bohuslän - norwegian
9: Västergötland
10: Östergötland
11: Svealand
12: Viken
13: Bergenhus
14: Eidsiva
15: Tröndelag
16: Bergslagen
17: Hälsingland
18: Jämtland/Härjedalen - norwegian
19: Hålgoland
20: Lappland
21: Västerbotten
22: Finnmark
23: Österbotten
24: Satakunda
25: Finland
26: Tavastland
27: Nyland
28: Savolax
29: Kexholm - novgorodian
30: Karelen - swedish
31: Ingermandland - novgorodian
32: Estland
33: Gotland
34: Iceland

comments anyone?
What city is it you will use in Jylland?
 

deallus

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cool-toxic said:
I´ll think it should be Viborg, because it has been the royal capital for many years.
You can easily change that for yourself by editing the province.csv file.. Ålborg works for me. :p

cool-toxic said:
and were can I download this mod? :confused:
you can't :p

the map editor isn't released yet..
 

Hallsten

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Aetius said:
What about merging 7 and 9 or at least splitting them another way (into a northern and southern area). The Swedes could get the port connection without the need for a tiny province. The Danes would have to occupy a bit larger area though. We could compensate the Danes with a Halland province.

Well, the size can be tweaked slightly. I don't think the size is too small now, however. Look at Liguria or most islands and they're a lot tinier without it being a too big a problem. A Halland would most likely be even smaller than Bohuslän and Älvsborg, and I still don't see why it's justified since we've already added two Danish provinces and one Norwegian one.
If Västergötland and Älvsborg are merged and split in half as you propose it would be impossible to move between Västergötland and Småland, which would look very strange indeed. I think Älvsborg can work...
 

Hallsten

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deallus said:
Denmark-Norway and Sweden-Finland about 1600.

I guess we both were a bit right :p

I changed it back to the vanilla borders. I don't quite like it though...

scandinavia2copy45tm.jpg
 

NitramDatsgnos

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I have a somewhat different idea.

This is not to say that I mind adding a lot of the new provinces proposed around here, but an illustration of an idea on how to prohibit much of the surreal army movements in the area, and to reinforce the importance of naval presence.

I know a lot of you cant stand PTI, but what the heck :D I guess someone with skills in graphics can turn this into something pretty:

Scandinavia.gif


As you can see, a little chunk of PTI prohibits army movement across Dovrefjell, and a bigger chunk of PTI isolates Hålogaland and Finnmark, so you will actually need a boat to get there. A Danish/Norwegian invasion of Russia from the North is still possible, but only through naval landing. Sweden will have to enter Norway through Jemtland or Østlandet. I dont see the need for a seperate Lappland province, but Västerbotten could be enriched accordingly. Between Västerbotten and Österbotten there should be a strong topographic divide, either represented by Tornio River, or by PTI. If the PTI solution is chosen, Sweden should still have a straits connection to Finland, preferably through a seperate Åland province, with straits going in either direction. Swedish offensives into Russia should be directed towards the South-East along the Bay of Finland, hence the detour for those of you that rather want to go to the Barents region.
 

Hallsten

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NitramDatsgnos said:
I have a somewhat different idea.

This is not to say that I mind adding a lot of the new provinces proposed around here, but an illustration of an idea on how to prohibit much of the surreal army movements in the area, and to reinforce the importance of naval presence.

I know a lot of you cant stand PTI, but what the heck :D I guess someone with skills in graphics can turn this into something pretty:

As you can see, a little chunk of PTI prohibits army movement across Dovrefjell, and a bigger chunk of PTI isolates Hålogaland and Finnmark, so you will actually need a boat to get there. A Danish/Norwegian invasion of Russia from the North is still possible, but only through naval landing. Sweden will have to enter Norway through Jemtland or Østlandet. I dont see the need for a seperate Lappland province, but Västerbotten could be enriched accordingly. Between Västerbotten and Österbotten there should be a strong topographic divide, either represented by Tornio River, or by PTI. If the PTI solution is chosen, Sweden should still have a straits connection to Finland, preferably through a seperate Åland province, with straits going in either direction. Swedish offensives into Russia should be directed towards the South-East along the Bay of Finland, hence the detour for those of you that rather want to go to the Barents region.

Clever idea, but I don't like adding PTI just like that, I want a Lappland and I don't want to lose and provinces... :)
Why put PTI between the coast-provinces?