[Map] Ibn Battuta's Legacy 2 - An alternative vanilla map WIP

[elvain]

The mod was updated to 1.3

1.3 update includes:
- Updated for 1.3
- Carantanian culture added
- Changes in Slovakia and northern and north-eastern Hungary
- Changes in de facto setup of Great Moravia (generally moved slightly to the south)
- various small fixes

 

[elvain]

anyways, as I will be moving to Europe, I decided to move the current, relatively limited off-forum interchange/discussion from Slack to Discord.

If anyone has suggestions for what you think IBL could adapt in Europe, please feel free to share them here:

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.gg

 

[elvain]

after a long while and overcomming some serious technical issues (mods not working at all with the launcher), the mod has now finally been updated to 1.4.0

The new version includes some small changes
One additional county to north Hungary - Nógrád/Novohrad.
Here is the total overview of all the new counties, baronies, mountain passes and mountains in Slovakia and northern Hungary:

I also slightly updated Egypt - Since it was already very dense in the Delta, I could only add few baronies on the edges of it around Cairo and in the desert south of Quzlum(new county)..
so the new baronies are in this area and in the new corridor connecting the Western Oases directly with Nubia, via Selima.

 

[elvain]

mod updated to 1.4.2 patch
additional changes:
- fixed missing terrains for the provinces added in the last version
- coded in cultures from @cybrxkhan 's RICE mod and also Circassian and Arpitan cultures into culture files, to allow compatibility with other mods of CMH project (the cultures are present in the files, although not on the map, nor history files)

 

[Trudon21]

suggestion for the canary Islands. Make Tenerife own county with the island of La Palma as a barony. Historically Tenerife was the last of canary Islands to be conquered by the Spanish and it had the largest populaion of the islands, which still does today.

 

[elvain]

thanks for the suggestion.

It does make sense from the perspective of Canary islands, but I'm not sure if it makes much sense in the wider context. To be honest, as I understand their historical context, they were way too marginal to have 3 separate counties.
At best I might make Tenerife a separate barony and to be completely honest, I don't even feel like promising it at all.

But maybe you can convince me? Was there any interesting interaction of the Canaries with anything outside the islands before the Spanish conquest, which would justify the isles having as many counties as duchy of Sous, the base of the Almohads?
(I am working on overhaul of Maghreb, adding additional duchy of Draa, which will leave Sous with 3 counties)

 

[Trudon21]

Not really. Regarding Tenerife it’s the island with the most known about its governance form before its conquest. Tenerife was divided into 9 Menceyato(chiefdoms). It’s thought that the island was united by a ruler called Tinerfe "the Great" in late 14th century and was divided between his 9 sons.
Balance wise Tenerife is already a barony and the duchy of the Canary Islands already has 3 counties. But Madeira was uninhabited prior to 1420. So maybe Madeira could be left blank and a separate county could added for Tenerife.

 

[elvain]

Not really. Regarding Tenerife it’s the island with the most known about its governance form before its conquest. Tenerife was divided into 9 Menceyato(chiefdoms). It’s thought that the island was united by a ruler called Tinerfe "the Great" in late 14th century and was divided between his 9 sons.
Balance wise Tenerife is already a barony and the duchy of the Canary Islands already has 3 counties. But Madeira was uninhabited prior to 1420. So maybe Madeira could be left blank and a separate county could added for Tenerife.

Thank you.
This is really interesting!

So you are suggesting that Madeira should be blank, because the first info about it is from 1420. But Tenerife, for which we have the first info from late 14th century not even a half century before, should deserve own county?
Looking at things from outside Tenerife, was Tenerife's contribution to the outside world any more significant than of Madeira, which you suggest being blank? - I mean mainly in the 11th century... or generally in the 9th-12th century, which is the time most games are played in this game?

Anyway, the problem is that CK3 does not allow blank counties. So despite your suggestion, I can't make Madeira blank county, which means that if Tenerife is given a separate county, it would make d_canary_islands a duchy with 4 counties, which is more than very powerfull Sous area. Now, objectively speaking, and considering contribution to the world outside Tenerife itself, do you think that Canary Islands really should have more power than a duchy, where the Almohad empire was born?

If Tenerife already is a barony and Canary Islands already have 3 counties, there just is no way I am giving it more, sorry. This mod's objective is not to give every single village its own barony or county.

 

[Ksiendzu]

So you are suggesting that Madeira should be blank, because the first info about it is from 1420. But Tenerife, for which we have the first info from late 14th century not even a half century before, should deserve own county?

Tenerife was inhabited. Madeira nat. It's a difference.
I added this to discussion, because I think you missed it.

 

[elvain]

Tenerife was inhabited. Madeira nat. It's a difference.
I added this to discussion, because I think you missed it.

Thanks, but I didn't miss it.
But still Tenerife's contribution/influence to the world outside Tenerife was no bigger than of uninhabited Madeira. That is the point.

EDIT: And I mean - I do recognize that Tenerife was the most important of the isles. But if Tenerife does deserve its own county so much, do the other isles really also deserve to have their own county aswell?
Madeira has to be a separate county, because it is very isolated. But Tenerife is not. Yet it is still way too small and unimportant to be a separate county with other islands being separate counties as well. That's why I think that 2 counties for Canary Islands and one for Madeira are already enough.

Sadly for the request, this mod isn't meant to add everything anyone finds interesting. In order to keep some consistency IBL doesn't give their separate counties also to other interesting places which would deserve it from even wider than microscopic perspective. I'm sorry.

I am adding quite a few baronies and counties to allow better representation of major Berber tribes of the Maghreb, but there simply is no way to give every single one of them their own barony or county, even though even the smallest of them played bigger role in history of far larger areas than all the united tribes of Tenerife together.
If somebody thinks that Tenerife deserves more, there are other mods which go into far more detail, so perhaps try it might be worth asking there. As for this mod, it's beyond its scope.

 

[Ksiendzu]

Thanks, but I didn't miss it.
But still Tenerife's contribution/influence to the world outside Tenerife was no bigger than of uninhabited Madeira. That is the point.

My intention was not to be rude or something, but to be helpful. I really like your mod and understand your decision

 

[elvain]

My intention was not to be rude or something, but to be helpful. I really like your mod and understand your decision

you were helpful, not rude, no worries
(I just hope I didn't sound rude or defensive or anything)

 

[elvain]

While ago I promised there will be more work done in Europe and here is finally a first shot of what is going on...

a preliminary look at Andalusia as I am reworking it with very kind guidance of @Cèsar de Quart (all credits to him)

 

[nsinger998]

Hungarian region improvement/suggestion

Hello Everybody, This is suggestion for Hungarian region as all other regions have already been updated/improved and this has been skipped. Let's improve this region together and fill this with all necessary information so Paradox devs can rely...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Its for CK2 but is full of maps of Hungary.

I especially recommend this map of Saint Stephen's(1000 - 1038) realm: https://slideplayer.hu/slide/2235876/9/images/5/Vármegyék.jpg

 

[elvain]

Hungarian region improvement/suggestion

Hello Everybody, This is suggestion for Hungarian region as all other regions have already been updated/improved and this has been skipped. Let's improve this region together and fill this with all necessary information so Paradox devs can rely...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Its for CK2 but is full of maps of Hungary.

I especially recommend this map of Saint Stephen's(1000 - 1038) realm: https://slideplayer.hu/slide/2235876/9/images/5/Vármegyék.jpg

thanks

I actually participated in that thread and already use not only those, but actually even better maps

The thing is - CK3 Hungary is lot more detailed than even that suggestion.
The current Hungary setup is clearly based on the maps posted in that thread, the comitates division in the 13th and 14th century.

The essence of my changes in Slovakia and northern Hungary was to adapt the setup so it can also fit the pre-Hungarian history of those areas and/or the situation in the 11th century for which I got quite sufficent sources in Slovak (my mother tongue actually).

Unfortunately I don't understand Hungarian and with the maps at my disposal I don't really know much how to improve the current setup of Hungary (getting it closer to the 11th century maps would mean removing provinces, which isn't what I'd want).

 

[Ksiendzu]

Maybe this will be interesting:

XII century:

 

[elvain]

thanks. Sadly, I know these aswell, and so did (most probably) the one who painted the vanilla map of Hungary, because these are reflected on the map.
Sadly, they're far less detailed than one would need to make the map of Hungary more detailed.

But thanks anyway!

 

[elvain]

Now here's another showtime for the WIP in Iberia - here is the almost final counties setup.
It's almost final in terms of county borders. Names still need to be localized, so for instance Medellin certainly won't be acounty where you can currently see it.

all the good from this setup comes from @Cèsar de Quart all the bad comes from me who had to butcher his suggestions down to be compatible with the limitations I chose to follow.

 

[nsinger998]

thanks

I actually participated in that thread and already use not only those, but actually even better maps

The thing is - CK3 Hungary is lot more detailed than even that suggestion.
The current Hungary setup is clearly based on the maps posted in that thread, the comitates division in the 13th and 14th century.

The essence of my changes in Slovakia and northern Hungary was to adapt the setup so it can also fit the pre-Hungarian history of those areas and/or the situation in the 11th century for which I got quite sufficent sources in Slovak (my mother tongue actually).

Unfortunately I don't understand Hungarian and with the maps at my disposal I don't really know much how to improve the current setup of Hungary (getting it closer to the 11th century maps would mean removing provinces, which isn't what I'd want)

Expecting later bookmarks to be added? I would just make some one barony counties for flexibility. also remember: Hungary was in constant flux at the time organization wise. So some liberty could be taken.

 

[elvain]

Expecting later bookmarks to be added? I would just make some one barony counties for flexibility. also remember: Hungary was in constant flux at the time organization wise. So some liberty could be taken.

I think the reason was simply a lack of sources for detailed enough map for 11th century.
Much of Europe, especially Central Europe uses borders from 12-13th century, so Hungary is no exception. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's due to planned later bookmarks, but because, frankly, most people take "The Medieval period" as the age of knights, clerics and burghers etc. which is mainly the 12-14th century world, not the world of mid 11th century and certainly not the 9th.
That's the Paradox of Crusader kings - most people expect the game in some world setting, but the game itself actually takes place before most of those things actually happened... or when they only started emerging.

Now back to Hungary. As far as my knowledge and my resources go, I don't know much how to actually improve the map. I do find it quite well done, not only compared to the disgrace Hungary was in CK2, but also to the maps and sources I know. It doesn't mean it's totally perfect, so if somebody has some particular things in mind, I'm all open to discuss them, all more eager than general talk.

That said, I'm not sure what you mean by "just make some one barony counties for flexibility". Could you evaluate this please?
I deffinitely don't want to flood the map with one barony de jure counties. If you mean having counties which have only one barony built and other yet empthy, that is something I would totally agree... especially in some parts.
But as said, I always prefer to discuss the things with some particular examples