Map changes are great, but we need new cultures!

[El-Daddy]

That is absolutely incorrect, St. Patrick converted the Irish Celts in the 5th century almost a hundred years before your date. Further Celts were present in Ireland in addition to the rest of Britain during the 1st century BC

The Celts came to Ireland in a time period more of the range of 700-500 BC.. we aren't exactly sure. They came to Britain around the same time. A bit earlier than 100 BC though.

You originally said

> That being said Welsh and Irish most certainly did not diverge prior to migration to Britain as they would've largely separated when the groups were divided by geography not prior.

The Celts came to Britain and Ireland. Welsh and Irish separated after the Celts arrived to both Britain and Ireland, not when the Celts just went to Britain.

 

[klopkr]

The Caspian Sea was always navigable, just difficult to get to.

We want trade republics on the caspian! Make them proper sea tiles please.

 

[J.B.]

Does anybody know what the Crimean Gothic names will be like? Will their names be represented by the current Visigothic names list, or will they receive a properly localized Crimean Gothic set, with no Iberian influences? I imagine that their naming conventions may have been very similar to those of the Ostrogoths, until the latter faded away after the Lombards took control of most of Italy. The Crimean Goths could have some Hellenic influences in some of their names. I hope that their naming list will be accurate, and numerous. The Duchy or Kingdom of Crimea, when occupied or formed by the Crimean Goths (Even Visigoths), could also be named Gothia, although perhaps Crimea for everyone else.

 

[Thure]

Does anybody know what the Crimean Gothic names will be like? Will their names be represented by the current Visigothic names list, or will they receive a properly localized Crimean Gothic set, with no Iberian influences? I imagine that their naming conventions may have been very similar to those of the Ostrogoths, until the latter faded away after the Lombards took control of most of Italy. The Crimean Goths could have some Hellenic influences in some of their names. I hope that their naming list will be accurate, and numerous. The Duchy or Kingdom of Crimea, when occupied or formed by the Crimean Goths (Even Visigoths), could also be named Gothia, although perhaps Crimea for everyone else.

The Visigothic ingame are Ibero-Romance... that would absolutelly stupid. Mostly the Crimean Goths at this point should have Greek names with some Germanic influence.

 

[J.B.]

The Visigothic ingame are Ibero-Romance... that would absolutelly stupid. Mostly the Crimean Goths at this point should have Greek names with some Germanic influence.

Yes, it would be bad, about as bad as slapping the Turkish ethnic-cultural label on the Burtas tribe, in fact. The Burtas were probably not Turkic, yet may have spoke it by some point, and according to recent scholarship on the subject, they may have been a remnant of the Scythian-Sarmatian peoples, of Iranic descent, like the Alans. Alternatively, they may have been Uralic, like their Mordvin neighbors. In that one Developer Diary, the Burtas are depicted as a Turkish tribe. In truth, it is still not known with certainty what they were closest to, but they should be given a distinct Burtas culture, that may as well fall under the Altaic grouping, or "Byzantine," like the Alans they may be related to.

 

[Byzantium2000]

Yes, it would be bad, about as bad as slapping the Turkish ethnic-cultural label on the Burtas tribe, in fact. The Burtas were probably not Turkic, yet may have spoke it by some point, and according to recent scholarship on the subject, they may have been a remnant of the Scythian-Sarmatian peoples, of Iranic descent, like the Alans. Alternatively, they may have been Uralic, like their Mordvin neighbors. In that one Developer Diary, the Burtas are depicted as a Turkish tribe. In truth, it is still not known with certainty what they were closest to, but they should be given a distinct Burtas culture, that may as well fall under the Altaic grouping, or "Byzantine," like the Alans they may be related to.

No more Iranian nomads in the byzantine group I say Burtas alongside Alan’s either get their own group or join the Iranians. But yeah Crimean goths with Visigoth names is prettey dumb. Greek or a gothic version of Greek names would be most appropriate.

 

[J.B.]

No more Iranian nomads in the byzantine group I say Burtas alongside Alan’s either get their own group or join the Iranians. But yeah Crimean goths with Visigoth names is prettey dumb. Greek or a gothic version of Greek names would be most appropriate.

The Iranian group makes sense; the eastern Scythian descendants, the Saka culture, are already in there, as well as the Tocharians (Who may not be Iranic, although Indo-European people). I am not sure what's so Byzantine/Roman about the Alans, for them to be included in that group.

 

[Dragatus]

I'm making this thread so that the community can assemble an authoritative list of cultures we'd like to see. It'd be great if we got even a few of these!

• Slovak/Moravian
• Slovene/Carinthian

I realize I'm late to the party, but here are my 2 cents as a Slovene.

I'm no historian so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but I've been looking into Carantania and neighbouring Slavic lands during the 8th and 9th century and came to the conclusion that there is little justification to have separate cultures. As far as I can tell the most historicaly accurate way to handle it would be to have some sort of "Old South Slavic" culture that then splits up into regional kingdom variants, similarly to how Norse splits up into Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian.

There doesn't seem to be much menaingful difference between the Slavs living in Carantania or the ones living in Croatia in either the CM or Old Gods bookmarks. But there definitely should be a distinction by the time 1066 rolls around.

At that point though we Slovenes had lost our nobility and were being lorded over by Germans. The way to represent that would be to have province culture be Slovene while the province owners are German. And in the middle ages and the renaissance the major Slovene population was in Carniola (Kranjska) and the people there were called Carniolans (Kranjci). A name that stuck around up until the 19th century.

 

[Vityviktor]

Sometimes I feel like the Iberian Peninsula could use some new cultures: Leonese and Aragonese (or maybe even better, Navarro-Aragonese, to better represent the Romance language and culture in southern Navarra and Aragon), for example. Portuguese could be renamed to Galician (it was the same language back in the Middle Ages, and it feels weird having Portuguese characters and provinces when the Kingdom of Portugal doesn't even exist yet). But then I feel that there would be too many cultures in very few provinces.

 

[Al Davoodi]

I would love some melting pots for greek ppl for example if Byzantium reconquers parts of the levant they would barely whipe out all the other existing cultures, and maybe some stuff if Byzantiums gets stronger something to "create" the Roman culture again,so they would get more accepted in the latin influenced world and the new stronger Byzantic/Roman Empire face similar issues like the old empire had back then with its latin vs greek culture stuff. Cause a new also western byzantium would face similar issues again i would guess.

 

[Zayd]

Bengali Hindus/Buddhists and Bengali Muslims are different culturally.
Bengali+Turko-Persian Muslim Rule = Bengali muslim. Their custom, Names,Surnames,Titles...are different.
The same goes for other south Asian cultures.

 

[Vityviktor]

Bengali Hindus/Buddhists and Bengali Muslims are different culturally.
Bengali+Turko-Persian Muslim Rule = Bengali muslim. Their custom, Names,Surnames,Titles...are different.
The same goes for other south Asian cultures.

I don't think we need a new culture just for that. However, I think there should be religion based names and surnames. For example: an Andalusian Muslim character named Muhammad which eventually is under Christian rule and ends up converting to Christianity, should change his name (specially when it has some religious meaning) and vice versa, as non-Muslims converting to Islam could use new names based on their new religion. I don't think this mechanic should cover every religion in the game, but maybe only the Abrahamic religions (I don't think a Christian becoming Germanic pagan should change its name, for example). This way we could have Bengali Muslims using different names and family names than Hindus or Buddhists, without having to create a new "Bengali Muslim" culture.

 

[Zayd]

I don't think we need a new culture just for that. However, I think there should be religion based names and surnames. For example: an Andalusian Muslim character named Muhammad which eventually is under Christian rule and ends up converting to Christianity, should change his name (specially when it has some religious meaning) and vice versa, as non-Muslims converting to Islam could use new names based on their new religion. I don't think this mechanic should cover every religion in the game, but maybe only the Abrahamic religions (I don't think a Christian becoming Germanic pagan should change its name, for example). This way we could have Bengali Muslims using different names and family names than Hindus or Buddhists, without having to create a new "Bengali Muslim" culture.

Yeah that's much better option, I suggested the same thing a year ago.

 

[classicist]

Does anybody know what the Crimean Gothic names will be like? ... I hope that their naming list will be accurate, and numerous.

How are they supposed to make accurate and numerous name lists when the Crimean Gothic language, society and history are so meagerly attested in written or epigraphic sources?

My personal preference would be that if it is not possible to have historically/culturally securely attested name lists that are large enough to provide plausible variation, it may be better to just leave the whole culture off.

I don't think we need a new culture just for that. However, I think there should be religion based names and surnames. For example: an Andalusian Muslim character named Muhammad which eventually is under Christian rule and ends up converting to Christianity, should change his name (specially when it has some religious meaning) and vice versa, as non-Muslims converting to Islam could use new names based on their new religion. I don't think this mechanic should cover every religion in the game, but maybe only the Abrahamic religions (I don't think a Christian becoming Germanic pagan should change its name, for example). This way we could have Bengali Muslims using different names and family names than Hindus or Buddhists, without having to create a new "Bengali Muslim" culture.

Absolutely. Dividing name lists of cultures into different religions would be a brilliant refinement to the game. It is annoying and implausible the way that, say, Tengri Hungarians already name their children with Judeo-Christian names.

 

[noirishAzazel]

Cause it actually fits eu4s time period their is no start in game where Belarusian would exist

I like to view every Paradox game as a continuation of previous. I'm completly aware that some cultures make more sence in EU4 game period, but sheer implication of byelorussian or ryasanian culture just poping out of thin air in 1444 driving my hisorical accurate brain crazy.

the chances of pagan Lithuania conquering Russian territories is also non existent

It's not an argument. Chance of AI forming a Roman Empire is also abyssmal, but it still in the game for quite simple reason - player enjoyment. I enjoy playing with high amount of details, espetially for a struggle of cultures and nation-building.

would serve to weaken the Russians

And why is this a valid point? Russian culture in EU4 was completly alogically butchered and nobody even speaks about this weakening. If we choose between historical complexity and balance, I wouldn't choose balance.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Sometimes I feel like the Iberian Peninsula could use some new cultures: Leonese and Aragonese (or maybe even better, Navarro-Aragonese, to better represent the Romance language and culture in southern Navarra and Aragon), for example. Portuguese could be renamed to Galician (it was the same language back in the Middle Ages, and it feels weird having Portuguese characters and provinces when the Kingdom of Portugal doesn't even exist yet). But then I feel that there would be too many cultures in very few provinces.

I can definitely see Leonese added without issue, the Kingdom of Leon is a title after all. Portuguese should stay as is. Catalan covers Aragonese to an extent. I do feel you on that there shouldn't been too many cultures, because then it'll just get messy.

A perfect Iberia for me would include Leonese, and put Suebi in the Iberian group. I think from this game's perspective, that would be a great work around.

 

[Dakilla TM]

People may have mentioned this but Italian needs to be split, since the super kingdom of Italy will be gone with HF. Venetian, Lombard(not Germanic), Umbrian, Sicilian, Neapolitan, and Sardinian would fit perfectly with the new kingdoms the Italian region would get. Plus there's a kingdom to represent each Italian subculture basically.

 

[Thure]

Catalan covers Aragonese to an extent. I do feel you on that there shouldn't been too many cultures, because then it'll just get messy.

Culturally and linguistically Aragonese is closer to Castillian than to Catalan. There were some problems with the Catalan dominance in the Kingdom of Aragon at the start.

 

[Vityviktor]

Catalan covers Aragonese to an extent. I do feel you on that there shouldn't been too many cultures, because then it'll just get messy.

Culturally and linguistically Aragonese is closer to Castillian than to Catalan. There were some problems with the Catalan dominance in the Kingdom of Aragon at the start.

Yeah. Aragonese is part of the old Navarro-Aragonese romance language, spoken in Southern Navarra and Aragon, and thus, closer to Castilian. Aragon itself was close to Navarra's sphere until its consolidation as a proper kingdom, that's why I suggested having both Navarra and Aragon using the same Navarro-Aragonese culture, but this would restrict the Basque culture even more, being necessary to split Navarra in two: the northern half Basque, and the southern one Romance.

 

[Will Steel]

I would like to add a Sanskrit->break-up culture to the list.

Most Indian rulers were still using Classical Sanskrit as a court language and north-Indian commoners still spoke varieties of Prakrit language (which is similar to what Vulgar Latin was to classical Latin - i.e. a popular simpler form of a grand and codified imperial language, spoken by the masses and not by the higher classes).

It was only by 10th century that other languages had distinctly evolved their own rich vocabulary and literature away from Sanskrit. They proceeded

Which is why, much of northern India should start as a large Sanskrit-Prakrit culture (not sure about the name)...which should break away in late 9th and 10th century into cultures like Hindustani (really it should be renamed to Hindavi), Bangali, Marathi, Rajput, Punjabi, Sindhi and so on...just like in history.

Also, Tamil culture in the game really needs to stop using modern Indo-Christian names (which are all European names). Also, there are some really bad naming systems in Paradox games across Indian cultures (who should use a lot of Sanskrit based names in this era regardless of culture instead of mixed spellings and names) in general, I hope that is corrected as well.