Maoist China, pls advise

[otaats]

Going for The People Have Stood Up achievement.

Year is 1941, and i've driven the Japanese completely out of Manchuria, and several times out of Canton. Now, i am somehow supposed to turn against Nationalist China. I didn't join the United Front - I am not well versed in Chinese events and timings, and if Chiang Kai Shek event is the one that triggers the UF faction, i did nothing (merely released him).

When i dealt with Xibei San Ma and Shanxi, i formed the United Defense Council (which makes me the leader as opposed to China with the UF), and joined the Sino-Japanese war. Did i break anything so far? Is there a way for me to turn on China now? I am aware that Infiltration decisions give me just that, but in this case i am wondering about potential consequences - USA and the Allies basically 'joined' war against Japan, so i'm scared that they will somehow defend Nationalist China if i get into war with them? Also, if i take Infiltration and China declares on me, what happens with Japan? Or is it that China signs a separate peace with Japan when i take Infiltration? Some clarification about this is what i would really appreciate a lot.

I am aware that i didn't beat the Japanese as quick as i could, but this being my first real Chinese game, i am quite happy and want to make the most of it, if possible. I am currently using all 20-width divisions (majority of the army is a 20w all inf division+support arty, but i also have several 7inf+2arty+support division, as well as mountaineers of the same composition).

 

[Dlin369]

Is Nationalist China in a faction? If they are, don't worry about the allies joining them - you can't join factions while already in one

 

[otaats]

Is Nationalist China in a faction? If they are, don't worry about the allies joining them - you can't join factions while already in one

Thank you for responding so quickly! Well yes, Nationalist China is in a faction, but the thing is, they are not in the United Front, they are in a faction I created as Maoist China (United Defense Council) - though they ASKED me to join their war.. So basically, i am the leader, and if we get to war, wouldn't that boot them out of that faction? I'm afraid if forming UDC basically renders me impossible to get in war painlessly.

There's the thing with China taking over faction leadership, but they are lagging behind me in industry needed to take over. I don't think they will ever match me soon enough. And it's probably not good to attack China if they have a better industrial base

 

[Dlin369]

Thank you for responding so quickly! Well yes, Nationalist China is in a faction, but the thing is, they are not in the United Front, they are in a faction I created as Maoist China (United Defense Council) - though they ASKED me to join their war.. So basically, i am the leader, and if we get to war, wouldn't that boot them out of that faction? I'm afraid if forming UDC basically renders me impossible to get in war painlessly.

There's the thing with China taking over faction leadership, but they are lagging behind me in industry needed to take over. I don't think they will ever match me soon enough. And it's probably not good to attack China if they have a better industrial base

Okay so what you need to do if they are in your faction is this - go down the foreign investors shared tree to the "One China" focus. That will make you leave your own faction and keep all the other Chinas in the old faction you had. This gives you the chance to invade them without outside intervention, but you gotta do it relatively fast before they get a chance to build up (non-aligns don't leave factions of other ideologies i believe). Declare war on them using the wargoal you get from the focus, and finish them off for the win

Edit; Actually hold that thought, let me doublecheck the files - this usually works for nationalist china.

Edit 2: Okay based off my understanding of the code, this should work - hover over the focus to make sure I'm correct though before you do it. Also make sure you can take on China + warlords alone

 

[otaats]

Okay so what you need to do if they are in your faction is this - go down the foreign investors shared tree to the "One China" focus. That will make you leave your own faction and keep all the other Chinas in the old faction you had. This gives you the chance to invade them without outside intervention, but you gotta do it relatively fast before they get a chance to build up (non-aligns don't leave factions of other ideologies i believe). Declare war on them using the wargoal you get from the focus, and finish them off for the win

Edit; Actually hold that thought, let me doublecheck the files - this usually works for nationalist china.

Edit 2: Okay based off my understanding of the code, this should work - hover over the focus to make sure I'm correct though before you do it. Also make sure you can take on China + warlords alone

Ahh kay, though i didn't go very deep into that focus branch - its gonna take a while to get relations with Soviets to +75 so i can proceed. My army is not big enough yet though. Too few support/arty pieces to make all my divisions super marines, so i will use the time to build up anyway now that Japan can't do anything anymore.

Oh, by the way, the Warlords didn't join Nationalist China at all; they joined my faction. So you are positive that Guangxi and Yunnan will align with them?

PS Thank You so much for helping! Will let you know how it went

 

[Dlin369]

Ahh kay, though i didn't go very deep into that focus branch - its gonna take a while to get relations with Soviets to +75 so i can proceed. My army is not big enough yet though. Too few support/arty pieces to make all my divisions super marines, so i will use the time to build up anyway now that Japan can't do anything anymore.

Oh, by the way, the Warlords didn't join Nationalist China at all; they joined my faction. So you are positive that Guangxi and Yunnan will align with them?

PS Thank You so much for helping! Will let you know how it went

The system is designed around the idea that you will fight one last war to unite China without other nations hopping in, so basically everyone currently in your faction should stay there while you leave (meaning you will be without a faction). It's actually good if they align with regular China because it'll let you annex them in one fell swoop - but only if you've got the resources. If Soviets aren't at war there is a chance they'll let you join ComINTERN as a bonus

 

[otaats]

The system is designed around the idea that you will fight one last war to unite China without other nations hopping in, so basically everyone currently in your faction should stay there while you leave (meaning you will be without a faction). It's actually good if they align with regular China because it'll let you annex them in one fell swoop - but only if you've got the resources. If Soviets aren't at war there is a chance they'll let you join ComINTERN as a bonus

Okay, now here's the biggest issue moving forward: I have a -75 opinion malus with Soviet Union for leaving Comintern. I joined comintern briefly so i can take Sinkiang without a risk of drawing in the Soviet Union before the Sino-Japanese war (and then left so i can fight Japan). I need +75 overall opinion so i can get to One China focus. The most i can get out of with the malus (and this is considering +100 from improved relations) is +60. So i need 15 more somehow. Any idea? :S

 

[Dlin369]

Okay, now here's the biggest issue moving forward: I have a -75 opinion malus with Soviet Union for leaving Comintern. I joined comintern briefly so i can take Sinkiang without a risk of drawing in the Soviet Union before the Sino-Japanese war (and then left so i can fight Japan). I need +75 overall opinion so i can get to One China focus. The most i can get out of with the malus (and this is considering +100 from improved relations) is +60. So i need 15 more somehow. Any idea? :S

May you send a screenshot of the modifiers for opinion? Mission to the soviet union gives you +50, improving relations gives you another 100, see if sending an attache, lendlease, volunteers (if you can peace out Japan), or (if desperate) declaring war on the Axis will get you to the level you need.

Alternatively, go reach out to the western allies

 

[otaats]

Certainly. Have in mind that in the screenshot, i didnt yet get to +100 by improved relations, but still it wouldn't be enough. One of the Soviet focuses were bypassed at one point (for whatever reason), maybe signing a non-aggression pact manually beforehand is the issue, not sure. Anyway, i totally forgot that i can use the other nation in the branch to get to One China. Will probably go for UK.

 

[Dlin369]

Certainly. Have in mind that in the screenshot, i didnt yet get to +100 by improved relations, but still it wouldn't be enough. One of the Soviet focuses were bypassed at one point (for whatever reason), maybe signing a non-aggression pact manually beforehand is the issue, not sure. Anyway, i totally forgot that i can use the other nation in the branch to get to One China. Will probably go for UK.

You must've bypassed the mission to the soviet union focused by joining them - the devs didn't account for you leaving. Honestly, at this point just kiss up to the UK, finish off Nationalist China and Japan and then decide if you want to join the USSR later.

 

[otaats]

You must've bypassed the mission to the soviet union focused by joining them - the devs didn't account for you leaving. Honestly, at this point just kiss up to the UK, finish off Nationalist China and Japan and then decide if you want to join the USSR later.

Hey, thanks a lot! I learned a lot about China today Won't make those mistakes again! Will post here once i'm done. Cheers!

 

[otaats]

@Dlin369 Hey, i've left the Chinese faction. The Allies invited me in. Should i accept, or this will render me impossible to grab all of China in the peace deal? I don't have the full knowledge about how a peace deal should work once China capitulates, with Allies in the picture.

EDIT: I accepted the invitation, though i basically did everything by myself so far. Germany has just capitulated, and i have a nice fat little war score against both Japan and China. I guess i got this regardless

 

[Dlin369]

@Dlin369 Hey, i've left the Chinese faction. The Allies invited me in. Should i accept, or this will render me impossible to grab all of China in the peace deal? I don't have the full knowledge about how a peace deal should work once China capitulates, with Allies in the picture.

EDIT: I accepted the invitation, though i basically did everything by myself so far. Germany has just capitulated, and i have a nice fat little war score against both Japan and China. I guess i got this regardless

In the future I'd avoid joining with the allies - the allies are notorious for puppeting everything they can get their hands on, so if they've got any warscore on the Nationalists they'll puppet someone and you'll have to declare war on them too

 

[otaats]

In the future I'd avoid joining with the allies - the allies are notorious for puppeting everything they can get their hands on, so if they've got any warscore on the Nationalists they'll puppet someone and you'll have to declare war on them too

I capitulated Nat. China, Guangxi and Yunnan, took all their cores, though the Japanese broke through and took some of their turf once i started beating them, so now i am in a prolonged war with Japan, and technically i'm still occupying 4 provinces in S.China.. I got no issues, basically conquered everything and still hold 70% WS on Japan. But the Allies are taking their sweet time to dominate the sea. It's 1945 and they STILL failed to take Borneo and Philippines. Germany was beat in 1944.

If they fail to help me capitulate Japan, i will be appropriately pissed off. I don't know whether i want to go through this ordeal so i don't get the 2 achievements for random reasons.

I am so pissed at the allies. They took this long to merely start invading Japanese Micronesia (puppet). They couldn't beat a crippled Japan in Burma without me either.

 

[otaats]

This is just getting better and better.. On the flip side, we took Borneo... After i transported my troops.

 

[Dlin369]

I capitulated Nat. China, Guangxi and Yunnan, took all their cores, though the Japanese broke through and took some of their turf once i started beating them, so now i am in a prolonged war with Japan, and technically i'm still occupying 4 provinces in S.China.. I got no issues, basically conquered everything and still hold 70% WS on Japan. But the Allies are taking their sweet time to dominate the sea. It's 1945 and they STILL failed to take Borneo and Philippines. Germany was beat in 1944.

If they fail to help me capitulate Japan, i will be appropriately pissed off. I don't know whether i want to go through this ordeal so i don't get the 2 achievements for random reasons.

I am so pissed at the allies. They took this long to merely start invading Japanese Micronesia (puppet). They couldn't beat a crippled Japan in Burma without me either.

That's actually good - it means that there will be a chance for you to beat out the allies in scooping up Chinese cores. When you win, scoop up the achievement territories first, let the Allies go for Japan itself. Also use a ton of naval bombers and subs and land troops yourself from Korea, make sure to attack from multiple tiles

 

[otaats]

That's actually good - it means that there will be a chance for you to beat out the allies in scooping up Chinese cores. When you win, scoop up the achievement territories first, let the Allies go for Japan itself. Also use a ton of naval bombers and subs and land troops yourself from Korea, make sure to attack from multiple tiles

I'd say it's GG. Soviet Union declared on the Allies and Francoist Spain joined Greater Asian Co-Pro-Sphere :3 Well, i'm not trying this again, that's for sure. Burma Road focus is broken too - learned that the hard way (couldn't go through with UK branch, so i had to go from scratch in the US one).

Also, Allies are being miserable throughout all war. They have a bigger navy but don't want to challenge Japan, which stacked up some 200 DD's, 40 Cruisers, 5 Battleships and 12 Carriers. I don't have a real navy but at least my subs are spotting their ships in every sea tile around China. The Allies are doing exactly nothing. We only managed to take Java and Sumatra, and finally landed in Borneo. In 1945. The worst thing is that they have 40 divisions overall. I just can't land there. It's over.

 

[otaats]

After taking a break for a week so i don't burn out, it's finally done. I continued the same game, and was lucky enough that Japan allowed my 10 subs to project Naval Superiority in the Japanese Sea. From there it was quite easy. @Dlin369 thank you very much for your advice, without it i am sure that i would quit this attempt. The Allies kept asking me to join war against Soviet Union, and rejecting them all was easy enough (though a bit annoying).

I could've taken a lot more turf in the peace deal with my 59% WS (unfortunately i didnt take all of Indochina and Korea, though i could have), so i suppose joining the Allies is a completely viable strategy, if you can circumvent the great power focus branch.. I am so happy!