Mantua Redux: Improved WC

[PrawnStar]

What Kentti said

Manouvering towards a decisive battle is often best done on your land because the enemy suffers far more.

I've found when you are on the run from a doomstack it doesn't stop to siege. It'll just keep coming after you like a girlfriend who feels she's waited too long for a marriage proposal.

 

[unddu]

Very nice

Would such an accomplishment have been possible if Austria had multiple megastacks?

Just as PrawnStar said, IF you have the space and sufficient troops, then yes you can pull this off with multiple mega stacks. In fact, when Im fightning France (in the not too far future), I will be doing just that

Excellent demonstration of why fighting wars on your own territory can be key to victory. It certainly chews the enemy stack then they generally blow what's left of their manpower pool on building new regiments. One trick is to find where they've now started building a queue of regiments and park a force on that province, particularly useful if you can station 10k in the siege without attrition

Kami, I'd say you can do that against multiple stacks if you have enough troops and space. If you don't when the first stack turns for home having been worn down the second stack will come for you and that's probably overrun time. I had a very unpleasant war as Novgorod trying to hold back the Golden Horde when I first tried IN

I always tend to just park 3k horsies in a province that's building new regiments, no use in parking more. This means I can cover an entire nation

Heh heh, I feel like I have just been at Uni in a lecture about "Winning Battles isn't everything." Or perhaps "My Lord, I have a cunning plan" 101.

Great stuff, and thanks for the tips. Always good to see alternate (and often better) ways of doing things. Shame is you haven't shown the year recently, so we have no idea how far off the BB wars are. Deliberate subterfuge, or unintentional lapse?

Deliberate subterfuge and ehm coincidence

However, once you get past a certain point, you can't afford to let your enemy occupy too many provinces, as each occupied province creates WE, and too much WE = death.

The trick is not letting them take too many provinces, if any. But sometimes you just have to bear with the WE and bite through the sore apple

It sucks when they gain and gain tradition with destroying their armies...
But you have nice tradition too.
What is Austrias WE?

Austria's WE is around 13/14, but that is of no effect really. Im not using WE to destroy them, as I would with France. They have not grown at all so are too small to be a good infightning victim.

Fighting enemy on your land and having enemy occupying your provinces are two different thinks.

True

For a minute I actually thought you were having a hard time with Austria

Neh, I always try to give the enemy some hope, by losing some battles.

What Kentti said

Manouvering towards a decisive battle is often best done on your land because the enemy suffers far more.

I've found when you are on the run from a doomstack it doesn't stop to siege. It'll just keep coming after you like a girlfriend who feels she's waited too long for a marriage proposal.

Yep, as long as the doomstack has sufficient numbers, it will keep up the pursuit.

 

[unddu]

Some more chasing and the rebels bite the dust. On to Austria.

Some more pointless optimism by the AI.

I take Battlefield commissions. Whilst it might be a nice national idea, since this game I'm kinda doubting it's overall usefulness in a WC. Im not just doubting the use of this idea though, many more have also fallen out of favour.

I never pick Conscripts anymore, there is no use in doing so. Depending on the depth of ones man power pool to win a war is a sure-fire way of getting ruined WE and cash wise.

Battlefield Commission gives just 1(!) tradition a year. Just 1(!). This means that winning just 1 or two battles in quick succession nets about the same amount of tradition, furthermore, just standing in enemy turf sieging and killing the occasional just build regiment nets you tons and tons of tradition, which makes the commission look like utter crap.

Military drill has also fallen in disfavour. Whilst being able to stand toe to toe with a foe longer is nice, there is really no use in doing so. The only merit this idea has, is that it reduces the chance of getting overrun. But what the hell, so does proper planning! The aim is to kill the enemy, not outlast him.

And last but not least, Esprit d'Corpse is a very cool thing, but when it comes kicking, the game will be long played


This means a proper WC needs 0(!) military ideas. The only war like idea that should be picked is Unam Sanctam!

National Bank/Unam Sanctam/Divine Supremacy/Colonial Ventures/QftnW

Those are all vital.

So yeah, this will be the last AAR where I will be picking a military idea, except in the case of roleplaying.

Some rebels al the way in Messina, I had to send the main army to destroy them, vitally delaying the war against Austria.

Because:

Lith sends reinforcements... I thought the war was done, but it seems it will be prolonged a bit..

And then this happens: Owh how I want to strike at France now, for free!

Twould be better if one of their vassals got excommunicated though, since dowing a vassal only nets you France and the vassal as an enemy, whilst dowing France gets you France+all vassal+allies as enemies.

A nice example of nice new crap event. 5 prestige or 1 stab.. tough choice...

That's trent and tirol under my command. That causes more WE a month then their King reduces.

I keep building troops for the coming showdown with France. I'm also fightning a lost battle in Tirol, main problem being my armies having a lot of regiments at low battle strengths. Think <80%.

More than 20% revolt risk, if only I could strike at France now, while they already have nice RR in their provinces.

After receiving a modest beating, the Lith forces head home to recuperate.

But alas, because of the low fightning strength of my own forces combined with some VERY poor rolls, I lose battles I didnt intend to lose:

The unwelcome guests from Lithuania were not expected and came at the worst of times (Main army was in Messina when I first spotted them).

This means Austria has had some time to reform some of their armies. Bah this means months of extra fightning!

Well not months perhaps, but still, its a waste.

The year we are at is just 1453 thought, so I still have some time left before then end of the 15th century

Ill just show the map of 1451 again, since nothing has changed .

 

[unmerged(111870)]

... Hate rebels .. Really hate their guts. Don't get me started on rebels!

How come Austria consequently gets more WE than you ? Even when your losses are equal or higher?

20% RR in france - Sounds like you will be having loads of fun!

 

[Enewald]

Love your updates. Always a lot of planning before action, makes the game a lot of easier. Brilliant.

 

[unddu]

... Hate rebels .. Really hate their guts. Don't get me started on rebels!

How come Austria consequently gets more WE than you ? Even when your losses are equal or higher?

20% RR in france - Sounds like you will be having loads of fun!

They get more WE because:

A) They are using larger armies than I am.
B) The fighting occurs on my lands or lands I control.

Love your updates. Always a lot of planning before action, makes the game a lot of easier. Brilliant.

Thanks

 

[unmerged(111870)]

Thanks for the clarification - As Enewald says, your updates and feedback, really helps a lot.

 

[Jaspume]

I feel as if I can play the game better just by reading your updates.

As the others have said, all of your pre-planning and explanations really help a lot. Keep up the awesome work.

 

[PrawnStar]

Liked your thoughts on the military NIs for WC. I've used two in my Iroquois game (manpower and force limit) because of my disadvantageous position after 'first contact' but generally I agree they aren't terribly valuable. Pre IN I've not been a fan of the naval ideas but Pressgangs is good.

The colonial and religious ideas are far better, the non trading economic ideas are also useful.

The new high level NIs are good but they come a bit late in the game

Knowing the date explains the lack of colonies. QftNW requires Trade 7 and the Atlantic powers normally take it 3rd idea so they haven't quite got started yet. Only Portugal strikes out early and they don't look in good shape this game.

 

[naggy]

IMHO, Military Drill is only useful if you expect an early fight with France, since France takes it first.

 

[Pirate Z]

Great AAR, it's really expanded my view on the possible strategies you can use while at war in EU3. Just one question, though: how do you maintain an army of 20+ regiments while making a profit on a yearly basis with the amount of provinces you own? I'm currently playing a game as Lithuania and with a similar amount of provinces and only 19 regiments I'm making a huge loss (okay, I've been going through a prolonged period of negative stability due to an extremely crappy series of events, but still)...

 

[naggy]

I'm currently playing a game as Lithuania and with a similar amount of provinces and only 19 regiments I'm making a huge loss (okay, I've been going through a prolonged period of negative stability due to an extremely crappy series of events, but still)...

Lithuania's provinces are not nearly as rich as Italy's.

 

[unddu]

I feel as if I can play the game better just by reading your updates.

As the others have said, all of your pre-planning and explanations really help a lot. Keep up the awesome work.

Thanks, Ill try to be as informative as I can

Liked your thoughts on the military NIs for WC. I've used two in my Iroquois game (manpower and force limit) because of my disadvantageous position after 'first contact' but generally I agree they aren't terribly valuable. Pre IN I've not been a fan of the naval ideas but Pressgangs is good.

The colonial and religious ideas are far better, the non trading economic ideas are also useful.

The new high level NIs are good but they come a bit late in the game

Knowing the date explains the lack of colonies. QftNW requires Trade 7 and the Atlantic powers normally take it 3rd idea so they haven't quite got started yet. Only Portugal strikes out early and they don't look in good shape this game.

I think that stating that Portugal is "not in good shape" is severely overestimating their current potential They look more like clobbered and thrown to the wolves :rofl:

IMHO, Military Drill is only useful if you expect an early fight with France, since France takes it first.

I kinda disagree, there are better ideas to pick. Not havin MD while the opponent does, can easily lead to better results for you then for him. With proper planning you can inflict way more damage on his armies, since his armies will stay and take the punishment for far longer.

Great AAR, it's really expanded my view on the possible strategies you can use while at war in EU3. Just one question, though: how do you maintain an army of 20+ regiments while making a profit on a yearly basis with the amount of provinces you own? I'm currently playing a game as Lithuania and with a similar amount of provinces and only 19 regiments I'm making a huge loss (okay, I've been going through a prolonged period of negative stability due to an extremely crappy series of events, but still)...

I take the National Bank idea, just to maintain my army. I always mint as much as I can without getting any inflation and then base my army size on my income. That's not all of it though, for prolonged periods in the early game, I'm depending on taking money in peace deals with other nations in order to stay afloat.

Lithuania's provinces are not nearly as rich as Italy's.

Lith provinces are actually quitte decent, I just love Kiev

 

[unddu]

Anyways, last time I closed with 3 consecutive losses. Some resting has invigorated the Mantuan army, meaning the regimental strength is once again above 80%

Resting your armies even though you have the momentum is sometimes hard to put your head to, but you have to value the momentum that you have now against the possibility of overstretching and losing fightning power whilst gaining nothing. Specially vs france.

Rested troops make short work of what remained of the small Austrian incursion force.

And there we have the more than annoying Lithuanians with yet another army. I do not want to fight the Lithuanians at all. There is no reason to do so, I dont want to inflict any WE upon them since I want them to be a shield versus the Russians or even have them prevent Russia from forming. I also dont want to commit troops in fights with an enemy that has nothing I currently want from them. Because they are not the senior I wont be getting a positive war score with them by winning battles, so no chance of getting some cash out of them.

Those Austrian regiments are the ones that I want gone.

This means I will be granting the AI free passage. I will withdraw from Lienz, keeping the 5k inf I have standing in Tirol and the 17k cav (1 10k army 1 7k, both with a general) resting in Treviso (which has a high support limit). If all goes well the Lithuanians will march into Lienz faster than their Austrian counter parts since they are mainly cav, after that the Liths will march into Trent and start a siege there, since there are troops in all other provinces that they could go to (Tirol with 5k inf and Treviso with 17k cav). Once I see when they will arrive in Treviso, I walk march the 10k cav army with the best shock general I have into Lienz, making sure I arrive 1 day after the Lith troops arrive in Trent, and smash the Austrian armies that marched together with Lithuania.

Which results in the screenshot above. My 10k army had 1-2 months or rest and is at 100% combat strength.

Also note that the Austrian army is not 1, but consist of multiple smaller armies. Might seem trivial, but is pretty important for multiple reasons.

First of all, if they had an all cav stack with a decent maneuvre general in the stack and then lost the battle, they would still beat me to the race to the next province, I would be the one getting the -1 penalty to rolls. Even if his other troops would arrive later one, it would still be me getting the -1 rolls.

But, even then, having multiple stacks means that those stacks will be arriving in the next province in multiple stages. Instead of having to fight 1 fight with a decent strength enemy, I will fight multiple small fights with weak enemy armies. That means I can destroy them with minimal costs

There goes the last of the Austrian army down the drain.

My rested 7k cav army now strikes at the Liths that are worn down by attrition, Trent has a low support limit :S

I catch them on the way back with my 10k army.

It's way nicer to have two armies than to have just 1.

And some crap news, a 3 diplo king. 3... 3!!!!


3!



-.30 rep a year... That means I could conquer around 1 province every 4 year or so..

The rebels celebrate the coronation of the new king by celebrating loudly and with torches and pitch forks..

And to add insult to injury, Hungary decides to strike. This is good and bad. It's good because it makes my job easier, with Lith focussing on Hungary, but it's bad because there are specific provinces I want from Austria and with my crap diplo king I better make sure I get max benefit for each shred of reputation.

The provinces I want are Tirol/Lienz/Karnten.

Gold and iron and a continuous empire As well as cutting of a province from them (trent), that might go and rebel into Styria!

The 10k army will have to go on rebel duty for the rest of this war. It's nice to have Sicily, but it's such a long way out. Or at least it seems like it, Walking from Koda to Samarkand is a decent chuck farther though :rofl: (small reference to rebel duty in Russia )

 

[Enewald]

Maybe you should hold a congress where you divide Austria?

 

[PrawnStar]

Good demonstration of timesorting enemy armies there - that type of manouvre campaign is the main reason I generally carry very few if any artillery units. Slow armies lose wars.

 

[unddu]

Maybe you should hold a congress where you divide Austria?

I will, but I will be the only one attending I can tell you now

Good demonstration of timesorting enemy armies there - that type of manouvre campaign is the main reason I generally carry very few if any artillery units. Slow armies lose wars.

I can't remember the last time I used art. Certainly not since IN :rofl:

 

[unddu]

The first one to blink loses. Georgia blinked.

The war for Hungary however didn't turn out the way they planned. At least Im guessing it was not their aim to actually lose provinces in a war they started?

The Ai needs to learn that attacking nations with three times as many troops and bordering provinces is not always the best thing to do.

This also leaves me in a tad of a pickle, as you will see shortly:

What? I just throw in the towel?! Well not really: It's actually a deliberate plan Im concocting.

The situation was as follows:

With Poland closing in. This means that I had two options: Keep on fightning whilst I was heading for a loan and increased WE, whilst having to fight Austrian rebels, and a continuous steam of Lith soldiers OR take the much needed money, a province that is crap to conquer each time because of its crap support limit, take a small rest, wait for my armies to get to 100% and then strike again (I already had an ace up my sleeve, two actually).

The reason why I couldn't pull off a decisive victory is two fold:

-Two rebel pop ups all the way in Messina, at the worst of times.
-A continuous stream of Lith soldiers.

The aces come in this form:

So all in all , I decided that it was better to pull out now, and go in again, then to pointlessly extend this particular war. Going in again would mean a quick and decisive strike, with minimal costs and max gains, whilst continueing would lead to a indecisive struggle with rebels and Lithuania.

So we settled I got trent and enough cash to keep at it at least for a couple of months..

Spies are great if you have the cash, like cash you just got from an enemy you will be attacking indirectly with said spy.

So let's go at it again shall we?

That's 1.

That's 2.

And that's the entire war :rofl:

My troops in the North West are simply guarding versus the Palatinate.

They are not getting off that easy.

 

[Enewald]

Sucks to be austria.
Doing well you are!

 

[Didaa]

Who said that Austria was strong?