Manpower in Stellaris

[Aleks S. I]

So in the Blorg streams I've noticed that manpower doesn't seem to be taken into consideration at all in the game at present. While it could be argued that a space empire would have multiple planets of billions of people and therefor manpower costs of dozens to hundreds of people per ship are irrelevant, I would hope to see manpower added at some point in the future. I find that in most 4x games you only worry about population growth for the first half dozen planets or so. After that it becomes a pointless piece of information. Since there are traits for increased and lowered reproductive rates, I would find it interesting to see a situation where a slow to reproduce empire is slowly running out people willing to fight during a protracted war with one or several different enemies.

 

[ParagonExile]

Seriously mate, try to imagine an empire with billions or trillions of people in it. You're not running out of people barring methodical genocide by your enemies.

I wouldn't much mind it, but it really stretches my suspension of disbelief.

 

[Mordaith]

So in the Blorg streams I've noticed that manpower doesn't seem to be taken into consideration at all in the game at present. While it could be argued that a space empire would have multiple planets of billions of people and therefor manpower costs of dozens to hundreds of people per ship are irrelevant, I would hope to see manpower added at some point in the future. I find that in most 4x games you only worry about population growth for the first half dozen planets or so. After that it becomes a pointless piece of information. Since there are traits for increased and lowered reproductive rates, I would find it interesting to see a situation where a slow to reproduce empire is slowly running out people willing to fight during a protracted war with one or several different enemies.

Population, as I recall, affects generation of Science. Which plays a large part in almost every aspect of the empire.

I maybe not understanding what you are looking for. Can you name a specific mechanic you would like to see?

 

[sethfc]

Manpower is just not worth while to implement in the core game I'm afraid (In my opinion anyway) for two reasons.
Fluff/Lore/Realism, given the huge population amounts present, and the relatively small size of militaries, a single planet can field an entire fleet (if it could somehow pay the maintence) and a ground invasion force in the 10-100 million range, so manpower doesn't really make much sense.
Gameplay Mechanics, It'd add another layer of complexitiy/management and ultimately take alot of balancing and work while offering minimal enjoyment/depth to the game. I think it'd work in a mod or an expansion one day potentially if they figure out how to do it, but ultimately it isn't needed in any shape or form for the game to work and be balanced.

 

[Aleks S. I]

Seriously mate, try to imagine an empire with billions or trillions of people in it. You're not running out of people barring methodical genocide by your enemies.

I wouldn't much mind it, but it really stretches my suspension of disbelief.

Alternately, imagine a situation where you have been at war with at least one empire (or possibly one of the end-game invaders) for hundreds of years. The species you're playing is slow to reproduce, or has a reduced lifespan, or something along those lines. You've lost several planets and probably hundreds or thousands of ships and billions of soldiers. For an empire that never expanded very aggressively, perhaps having peaked at somewhere around a dozen populated systems, such a situation would be putting a serious strain on your population. I would like to see the game reflect that your production and research ability are being crippled as you desperately recruit/conscript people to avoid not being wiped out by your enemies after such a long period of warfare.

I'd imagine this could be dealt with by giving pops a numeric size value, then as that gets reduced by the construction or repair of ships and armies it applies a penalty to production based on what percentage of the pop is missing. Either way it's not a huge detriment to the game, it's just something I've noticed is never really represented in most games in this genre, and something that paradox has modeled in all of their previous titles.

 

[Druesling]

Since you can even build robot ships, and possibly armys, I can't see how the concept of manpower would benefit the game. Just imagine you lost all your manpower in a great war, your opponent too, but he happens to stumbe over the robot soldier tech. He would wipe you out, with you having no opportunity to regain your strength. That would be totally OP.

 

[ParagonExile]

Alternately, imagine a situation where you have been at war with at least one empire (or possibly one of the end-game invaders) for hundreds of years. The species you're playing is slow to reproduce, or has a reduced lifespan, or something along those lines. You've lost several planets and probably hundreds or thousands of ships and billions of soldiers. For an empire that never expanded very aggressively, perhaps having peaked at somewhere around a dozen populated systems, such a situation would be putting a serious strain on your population. I would like to see the game reflect that your production and research ability are being crippled as you desperately recruit/conscript people to avoid not being wiped out by your enemies after such a long period of warfare.

I'd imagine this could be dealt with by giving pops a numeric size value, then as that gets reduced by the construction or repair of ships and armies it applies a penalty to production based on what percentage of the pop is missing. Either way it's not a huge detriment to the game, it's just something I've noticed is never really represented in most games in this genre, and something that paradox has modeled in all of their previous titles.

How common an occurrence is that though, and should the game be balanced around this scenario?

 

[S.C. Watson]

We're just talking numbers here. I don't think it would be that difficult to implement. And, you can not seriously expect me to believe that races are setting up colonies with millions of individuals. A few thousand to start with, and then grow into millions I could see.

I would like to see ship crews, planet/city/colony populations, and army numbers. I think it would add nice strategic level to the game.

It can be done very easily - hell, Stars! a game that's almost 25 years old did it with colonies and armies. I just don't see why it can't be done other than "someone does want to / like the idea because of X."

At this point, though, yeah - expansion or mod is the best bet. I just want the game to come out already

 

[ikki]

happiness reductions from being at war is already implemented

 

[Fonz]

I would like to see ship crews, planet/city/colony populations, and army numbers. I think it would add nice strategic level to the game.

Seeing the numbers for flavour is definitely nice, but having a limiting mechanic based around manpower and ship crews like in EU4 would definitely be out of place, and unsuitable for a sci-fi title like Stellaris

 

[S.C. Watson]

Seeing the numbers for flavour is definitely nice, but having a limiting mechanic based around manpower and ship crews like in EU4 would definitely be out of place, and unsuitable for a sci-fi title like Stellaris

I don't know. Let me hit your ships with a microwave laser (which would literally fry your crew, and leave the ship intact) and then we'll talk about how important crew numbers are

 

[Fonz]

I don't know. Let me hit your ships with a microwave laser (which would literally fry your crew, and leave the ship intact) and then we'll talk about how important crew numbers are

Your puny microwaves don't even dent the superior shields of the Space Fox empire

I don't mind having crew numbers be a combat modifier, although balance might be a little hard. In ETW I just used grape shots for all my ships and it's pretty much instant win and capturing all the ships.
It's just that something like "You can't build more ships because you don't have enough manpower" is really odd with planets that have billions of population.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Population, as I recall, affects generation of Science.

It does not- population has no inherent ability to generate anything. Resources are only generated through working tiles (and buildings within those tiles). Mining/Research stations effective work a 'orbital' tile on a planet.


Manpower is really out of place in stellaris. Raw population numbers aren't even tracked, which is an obvious barrier, but even if they were, a fractional percentage of your population can generate everything your government needs in terms of what the gameplay focuses on. Everything else happens at a level below the stellaris gameplay.
Would a gameplay about low level empire management be potentially interesting? Sure. But stellaris is not designed to be that game.

 

[S.C. Watson]

It's just that something like "You can't build more ships because you don't have enough manpower" is really odd with planets that have billions of population.

Oh, well that is a bit out of place. I mean if you're down to a couple of colony worlds and a few thousand individuals, I could see it becoming a problem, but if you're still rocking your homeworld and core systems, this shouldn't be a consideration at all.

Microwaves didn't work? Meson beams! ;P

 

[ashbery76]

To invade and occupy trillions it would take triilions.

 

[13Foxtrot]

I don't think manpower should be taken into consideration, but I do believe troop skill level should. It fits in with scifi trope....look at the Sardaukar in Dune....

there should not only be different tech levels of troops but skill level as well. troops that take longer to create/train but fight better....

In its current state you can keep sending troops to their death with little repercussion other than a little warscore and the cost/time it takes to create new ones...I'd like to see elite vs line troops

 

[13Foxtrot]

To invade and occupy trillions it would take triilions.

not if you own the space around it....in the blink of an eye you can level a city.....that is almost like having a gun constantly pointing to someone's head. You would(n't) need as many troops if you had insto-kill capability.

 

[ashbery76]

not if you own the space around it....in the blink of an eye you can level a city.....that is almost like having a gun constantly pointing to someone's head. You would need as many troops if you had insto-kill capability.

Planets have defences too.It is more realistic planets defences would destroy fleets in reality.Easily spotted in space unlike a whole planets weapons storage.

 

[13Foxtrot]

Planets have defences too.It is more realistic planets defences would destroy fleets in reality.Easily spotted in space unlike a whole planets weapons storage.

I am talking about owning the space...that means you have bombed the planet into submission and destroyed their space defense capability.

 

[13Foxtrot]

Planets have defences too.It is more realistic planets defences would destroy fleets in reality.Easily spotted in space unlike a whole planets weapons storage.

right now it is not modelled in the game