Manpower and reinforcement mechanics

[LodovicoAriosto]

I would be grateful if someone explained several problems. I admit that the flow of manpower in Victoria is a bit mysterious to me.

When you hover the cursor upon manpower value, you can see different cultural groups and two numbers - for example 14/22. What do they mean? Actual number of divs/total number of soldier POPs of a respective culture?

I wonder from where divs are reinforced. The manpower pool is common to all cultures so I guess they are reinforced primarily from their cultural group POPs.

Let's assume this situation: I have no regular, national divs but I build as many as possible native divs. Their number is probably limited by soldier POPs in the colony (for example Arabic culture). But will these divs be reinforced from my national soldier POPs, if I reinforce only them again and again?

 

[unmerged(37275)]

As far as I understand, you reinforcements come from the total solider POP (national or not). So in effect a national division can be reinforced by a non-national soldier. However, when you want to create new divisions, the nationality that you can pick is determined by the number of soliders of that nationality which in turn determines how many divisions of that type you can build (which is what the 12/14 numbers are). In turn if those divisions lose men they come from the relevent solider POP, so in that case the game gives the impression that the reinforcments come from the national soldier pop. However, I think you could demobilse all your national soldier pops and you would still be able to reinforce your national divisions, though where the losses come from then I dont know. Perhaps worth testing, you may get 'free' soliders. Either that or the other solider POPs suffer the hit.

A good trick is if you have enough national soliders for one division, if you get enough manpower from other POPs you can still recruit as many natinal divisions as you can order in one go.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

However, I think you could demobilse all your national soldier pops and you would still be able to reinforce your national divisions...

Obviously, yes. If I demobilise all my national soldiers to spare my own blood, I can reinforce my already built national divs from colonies and still have the qualities of national divisions.

 

[coco2]

The numbers for each culture are the number of divisions of that culture/the number of divisions that culture can support (ie. the total soldier population of that culture / 10000). Divisions are reinforced from the national pool, however combat losses are taken from correct culture soldier pops in the province the division was raised from.

The whole division-pop link doesnt work too well in my opinion and is too open to exploit. Single player this isnt much of an issue, since you can just not do it - ie always have enough soldiers to support the number of divisions in each culture - you are only cheating yourself. In multiplayer this is normally an enforced rule. However, there are ways to even get around this, in that the combat losses go to a specific province, so raising your 100 div army from a province and then demobilising that province and turning a different one into soldiers gets around it.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I tried some testing.

You can have divisions based in a home province with no soldier POPs.

When you reinforce a division which DOES have a soldier POP in its home province AND you reinforce, no soldiers disappear from that relevant POP.

They do not even disappear when you increase your defense spending. This means that manpower value is a virtual number, just a calculation of soldiers ready to be deployed into field.

Before, I was used to build some colonial armies even when I could build additional national divs. Just to save my core POPs. But it seems there is no point in this.

I still do not know how is manpower value calculated from concrete soldier POPs. There must be some ratio given by your defense spending and maintenance level.

 

[unmerged(37275)]

As I thought. Solider POPs only vanish when they are killed, rather than vanish when you reinforce. If they 'turned' into manpower, then whenever you promoted a solider POP it would vanish (as manpower goes up by the same amount as the size of the POP you promoted if you have high defense spending). It doesnt, and if it did you wouldnt be able to demobilize them (imagine if you mobilised your nation and all those POPs vanished!!). As pointed out, there are loopholes and it would be good (and probably fairly easy) to close them.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I just checked home provinces of my national divs which I have had for at least 15 years (3 bigger wars during this time). 90% of them have no soldier POPs in their home provinces, they all got killed - you cannot recruit a div from a province with no soldiers.

I did not want to exploit anything but this is how it ends. My proud junker Prussian corpses are probably full of Koreans now!

 

[unmerged(37275)]

Ah, but when those units die, do Korean solider POPs die? Or do you now have free soliders? I suppose you could look at it as the new recruits are trained by the officers and men of your orginal nationality and so in effect become as good as them (as opposed to native divisions which were often purposly not trained well so they wouldnt beat their white couterparts).

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I think that someone perishes, but it is hard to recognize who - in 150 million country. Koreans make 15% of it so they are certainly involved.

...native divisions which were often purposly not trained well so they wouldnt beat their white couterparts).

Yes, in Victorian era they could match their overlords only with vast numbers. But nowaydays? South Korea alone is bigger economy than Netherlands, Sweden or Australia. And North Korea would be the same powerhouse if they could get the tankers to the Gulf of Mexico too

 

[Orm]

Ah, but when those units die, do Korean solider POPs die? Or do you now have free soliders? I suppose you could look at it as the new recruits are trained by the officers and men of your orginal nationality and so in effect become as good as them (as opposed to native divisions which were often purposly not trained well so they wouldnt beat their white couterparts).

IIRC, when soldiers die the game checks for same culture soldier POPs in the home province of the division, if there is none it checks for same culture POP in other provinces, and finally if there are none of those it takes the dead from a soldier POP of another culture. I'm not sure about how the order of provinces and cultures to be checked is decided but at least for provinces it could be simply by province ID.