Manchukuo's Fascist Qing dynasty

[Stug_Life]

One thing I have noticed is that even when Manchukuo gains its independence it remains fascist. Yet the two Kaisers, and the Shah of Iran are non-aligned. Even Japan when going down Support the Kodoah NF becomes non-aligned. So can Manchukuo be changed to non-aligned when breaking away from Japan?

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Fascist is a stronger ideology for the most part anyways. Although technically you could if Japan supports Kodoha

 

[Adrized]

Why would you want to be non aligned? It's objectively a shit ideology.

 

[Bendeguz]

So can Manchukuo be changed to non-aligned when breaking away from Japan?

There you are touching on an interesting thread though: is Japan Fascist in 1936?

The classification of Fascism is a tricky think that historians still debate over to this day, there is no set rule.

Japan was certainly authorian and dominated by the military, but it was having elections in 1926, 1937 and 1942! Admittedly by 1942 it was more a formality, and the civilian government was having less and less control ever since the Manchurian Incident, but there was two Fascist parties technically fighting for the vote in 1942.

Should Japan only be considered Fascist from 1940, which is when all political parties were forced to merge into the Imperial Rule Assistance Association (Taisei Yokusankai), a pro-military political organization? Because in 1939 your still having elections with 73% voter turnout.

Plus that's not even getting into whether countries like Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, or even Metaxas' Greece are officially 'fascist.'

Personally I'm inclined to say Japan should be non-aligned until/if Tojo takes the wheel, but that's just me.

 

[Alliegorical]

is Japan Fascist in 1936?

Yes.

 

[Bendeguz]

Yes.

Ok... What is Fascism?

Are you going by Umberto Eco's 14 points, for example?

 

[Ryousan2k]

Fascism is often identified by Ultranationalism in the political Aspect and Corporativism in the economic aspect. Japan roughly matches the archetype.

But Manchukuo is another beast entirely: It hardly has neither a national identity to exacerbate and its economy is dominated by the Kwantung Army and Japan. We could make the argument that the diea behind the Indepedence War is to assert a Manchu identity as strong and unique, but it get neboulous with the notion of the possibility of integrating "Five peoples under One Union" in the Focus tree and is also conflicting with the ultimate goal os reestablishing the Chinese Empire, which was multinational and multiethnic at the time of the Qing.

That why a proper Monachist ideology would be neat: The Great Qing Emperor is not ruling by the will of his subjects but by a Mandate from Heaven itself

 

[SchwarzKatze]

There you are touching on an interesting thread though: is Japan Fascist in 1936?

The classification of Fascism is a tricky think that historians still debate over to this day, there is no set rule.

Japan was certainly authorian and dominated by the military, but it was having elections in 1926, 1937 and 1942! Admittedly by 1942 it was more a formality, and the civilian government was having less and less control ever since the Manchurian Incident, but there was two Fascist parties technically fighting for the vote in 1942.

Should Japan only be considered Fascist from 1940, which is when all political parties were forced to merge into the Imperial Rule Assistance Association (Taisei Yokusankai), a pro-military political organization? Because in 1939 your still having elections with 73% voter turnout.

Plus that's not even getting into whether countries like Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, or even Metaxas' Greece are officially 'fascist.'

Personally I'm inclined to say Japan should be non-aligned until/if Tojo takes the wheel, but that's just me.

The turnout for the 1942 election was even higher, at 83%.

 

[Alliegorical]

Ok... What is Fascism?

Are you going by Umberto Eco's 14 points, for example?

I wasn't aware of them, but after looking them up, basically yes. I wouldn't say every point is an essential component to be considered fascist, but they are all pretty common features of modern fascist ideologies. Fascism goes by many names (or by no name at all, as in Ancient Rome) in different places/times. The first fascist of the modern age was Napoleon Bonaparte, and when determining whether a person is a fascist, I compare them to him.

At the end of the day, fascism is a label, and like all labels applied to humans, they're imperfect approximations. So I don't like to get into long arguments about who is or isn't a fascist. What matters though is that everyone that most people generally consider a fascist has a lot of things in common, and 1936 Japanese leadership qualifies IMO.

I don't think elections disqualify a regime as a fascist, especially when the people being elected are largely not the people actually making the decisions. Fascism isn't a system of government; it's an ideology. Most fascist regimes are totalitarian autocracies, but sometimes they're cliquish oligarchies or even populist "dictatorships of the majority".

 

[Stug_Life]

I understand that fascism in the game has better traits than non-aligned. What I am trying to say is that all monarchy are non-aligned in the game except Manchukuo. Once they break free of Japan they should become non-aligned. Also I have been advocating since the release of Waking the Tiger to redue the traits on non-aligned ideology, since in my opinion it is far too restrictive on authoritarian ideologies.