Managing your finances with Portugal

[unmerged(56576)]

After playing several games at this very interesting little nation , I've just a question to ask about playing Portugal:

How not to lose money?

In every game I've played I had several difficulties in getting enough spare ducats to colonize and build a navy. Also, Portugal is so small and poor at the beginning that it only gets about 40-60 ducats with census taxes; I know this is not ahistorical, but how in the world can I get a good cash flow with Portugal? I just can't mint for very long times, or my inflation will increase too much and my research will suffer. Plus, colonization can get me enough cash but early on it is dirty expensive to turn the colonies into cities, especially in Brazil or Africa where climate gives a huge penalty to population growth. In many games I've ran out of money early and left them frustrated; because while the AI apparently has all the money in the world to keep colonising everything I can do is to explore and look at impossible colonies. Thus, I've had few succesful games with Porto, even if they are my favorite nation followed by Muscowy and (maybe) the Ottoman Empire.

Thanks

 

[Duke of Wellington]

I've found it works to go for trading techs whilst building TPs in Africa to help the nice CoT in Tago along. Build colonies in Brazil with its very nice taxbase. Wars in North Africa can net you some handy money from peaces and looting.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

As for money, the "5 merchants in every CoT in the world" rule helps out a lot. You can have a strong presence (5 merchants) in Astrakhan, Isafan, Muscat, Zanzibar, Kutch, Ganges, Malacca, Shanghai, and Kansai long before you even have a route explored around Africa. (And ofc 5 merchants in all the European/Mediterranean CoTs too.)

Probably the strongest early move for Portugal (un-historic though), is to grab the Caribbean islands and then conquer the Aztecs, before Spain gets any explorers.

 

[Poggy]

I've found it works to go for trading techs whilst building TPs in Africa to help the nice CoT in Tago along. Build colonies in Brazil with its very nice taxbase. Wars in North Africa can net you some handy money from peaces and looting.

I am in my first game and have some Q's here

How do you trade techs?

How do you loot a province and what effects does it have?

Also, I am around 1480 with Aragon. I dont have any conquisators or exploreres. What can I do to get them?

Thanks,.

 

[Kriszo]

How do you trade techs?

You can't, I think he meant that you should research trade-techs.

How do you loot a province and what effects does it have?

In a war, move your army into an enemy province. It gives you some money (which is distributed as your sliders are set)

 

[Rotten Venetic]

Also, I am around 1480 with Aragon. I dont have any conquisators or exploreres. What can I do to get them?

Aragon doesn't get any explorers/conquistadors. The best bet you've got is to go to war against castille and become Spain yourself. I don't know if 1480 isn't too late, bcs I've never played Castile OR Aragon. If they're Spain already, it's definitely too late.

I really don't know the time periods for the events in Castile/Aragon/Spain, but I think you might still be able to become Spain. How, I don't know - except that you need to conquer provinces from Castile.

 

[Poggy]

Aragon doesn't get any explorers/conquistadors. The best bet you've got is to go to war against castille and become Spain yourself. I don't know if 1480 isn't too late, bcs I've never played Castile OR Aragon. If they're Spain already, it's definitely too late.

I really don't know the time periods for the events in Castile/Aragon/Spain, but I think you might still be able to become Spain. How, I don't know - except that you need to conquer provinces from Castile.

Uh Oh. Well Spain doesnt exist and neither does Castille so hopefully I will get the event to become Spain anytime now. Fingers crossed. Since I created this game from a CK save I suppose there is a chance it won't happen though . Thanks anyway.



Also thanks for your help Kriszo

 

[unmerged(6159)]

You need to own Castilla to become Spain.

As to Portugal, my preference for the 15th century is to simply lay the groundwork for the explorers and conquistadors who start coming in the 1490's. What I want to achieve by 1490 is:
-Trade tech 4,
-Naval tech 5 (for faster ships) or possibly 7 (for lower attrition).
-Very good income (merchants everywhere possible),
-a few bases for quicker exploration exploration (colonies or military access doesn't matter. MA is better for hyper teching)
-maybe one or two colonial cities for recruiting away from home.

The way to do this is to spend all your money on TPs and merchants. No colonies except level 1 colonies to allow your explorers to make port. No money to diplomacy except perhaps to small African, Indian and American nations to get military access. No money to the army or navy (you get a decent sized navy from the ships the explorers show up with). Level 6 TPs provide a lot of money, paticularly as your trade tech advances. I build them everywhere except low goods value provinces (slaves, grain, fish). I'd like to get the Tago COT to 500d or more, but I get lot's of money from trade taxes even without the COT. The initial army can be used to vasslize Fez and Morocco and then grab Alexandria and maps from the Mamelukes. I want as few provinces as possible to keep tech costs down. (Alexandria is rich enough to more than pay it's own way.) No matter what you need to get rid of the initial army, it's way too big. (AI Portugal is very good at getting rid of this army.) You need an army that is big enough to wipe out the occasional native and deter attacks from Castille.

Of course the alternative to all of this is to use the initial army to kick the crap out of Castille. Take Toledo and Andalucia, and anything else you please. Then you will have census taxes and can act like Spain and build colonies.

 

[Rotten Venetic]

If you can get to Guantanamo, colonize it. You'll get a CoT all to yourself for a nice monopoly

Oh, and keep an army of some 3-4 k there but dont beat the natives.

It's one of the best places to set up a colony, and it can be available in early game if you're lucky enough to find it. I think the Cot comes with level 3 or 4 colony but it might be 2.

Btw, you don't have to be portugal, I got the cot there with france :rofl: but the paleo-brazillians should work too

Uh Oh. Well Spain doesnt exist and neither does Castille so hopefully I will get the event to become Spain anytime now. Fingers crossed. Since I created this game from a CK save I suppose there is a chance it won't happen though . Thanks anyway.

Omg, who owns everything there? If it's you, good, if not, it should be

 

[Poggy]

If you can get to Guantanamo, colonize it. You'll get a CoT all to yourself for a nice monopoly

Oh, and keep an army of some 3-4 k there but dont beat the natives.

It's one of the best places to set up a colony, and it can be available in early game if you're lucky enough to find it. I think the Cot comes with level 3 or 4 colony but it might be 2.

Btw, you don't have to be portugal, I got the cot there with france :rofl: but the paleo-brazillians should work too



Omg, who owns everything there? If it's you, good, if not, it should be

Yeah I own all of the Iberian peninsula, South France, Northern Italy, North Africa and the Balkans as well as parts of Lithuania. In fact really, I shouldnt have to bother with colonizing but I feel like I would be missing out.

I am trying to make a ring of Aragon around the Med . Then go North and try to take from Flanders to Danzig on the North Coast.

 

[Poggy]

Yeah I own all of the Iberian peninsula, South France, Northern Italy, North Africa and the Balkans as well as parts of Lithuania. In fact really, I shouldnt have to bother with colonizing but I feel like I would be missing out.

I am trying to make a ring of Aragon around the Med . Then go North and try to take from Flanders to Danzig on the North Coast.

Woohoo, I finally became Spain last night. Oddly enough the event triggered just as my girlfriend asked me if I was planning to be home in time to watch the Spain game today.

Its all nice and yellow now meaning I dont get my provinces (formerly grey) mixed up with the Germans and Timurids anymore (also grey).

Anyway, I was just in a massive war and had a big rebellion. I had won my battles and had lots of sieges but very few troops. This meant that I click on "besiege" so I can move the bulk my troops on to where they are badly needed.

However, the troops left behind do not seem to siege the enemy. There is no "seige progress bar" underneath the castle icon. What does this mean? Do I need more troops to siege? How many is typically needed?

I realise I have gone off topic here so if I have more Q's I will create my own thread.

Thanks.

 

[Duke of Wellington]

However, the troops left behind do not seem to siege the enemy. There is no "seige progress bar" underneath the castle icon. What does this mean? Do I need more troops to siege? How many is typically needed?

That means the number of troops has gone below the siege threshold (attrition is the most common cause). You need to have at least an equal number of troops to the base level for the fort (10 cannon count for the same as 1000 troops). E.g. for a minimum fort with 5000 you need 5000 troops or 4000 troops and 10 cannon, 3000 troops and 20 cannon and so on. Note that a fort for a colonial city only has 2500 troops at minimum, 5000 at small etc, but still requires the same amount of troops besieging as a normal fort.

 

[Poggy]

That means the number of troops has gone below the siege threshold (attrition is the most common cause). You need to have at least an equal number of troops to the base level for the fort (10 cannon count for the same as 1000 troops). E.g. for a minimum fort with 5000 you need 5000 troops or 4000 troops and 10 cannon, 3000 troops and 20 cannon and so on. Note that a fort for a colonial city only has 2500 troops at minimum, 5000 at small etc, but still requires the same amount of troops besieging as a normal fort.

Great Thanks

 

[unmerged(48021)]

Just a small question about sieges. There always has to be a number of foot soldiers in the siege, or a cannon-only army works just as well?

 

[Duke of Wellington]

Just a small question about sieges. There always has to be a number of foot soldiers in the siege, or a cannon-only army works just as well?

There doesn't have to be any infantry in a siege. An all cavalry or all cannon army will work fine. Of course you can only assault with infantry.

 

[unmerged(17138)]

There doesn't have to be any infantry in a siege. An all cavalry or all cannon army will work fine. Of course you can only assault with infantry.

But it's a good idea to have at least a few thousand infantry in your siege army to absorb any attrition (eg. movement attrition). Attrition targets the troops first and only affects cannons if there's no infantry/cavalry around. Given how expensive those cannons are, it's a good idea

 

[unmerged(48021)]

Thanks! Because I´ve been thinking about having one main army to break the defenses, and small armies of cannons and some soldiers for sieging. What do you think? (sorry for changing the subject of the thread...)

 

[Kriszo]

Also, if you encounter an enemy army with your all-cannon army, you are immediately annihilated (not just defeated, but killed instantly). At least that is my experience...

 

[unmerged(58333)]

I'm Portugal at the moment and a new player.From what I've picked up from the forum,I've tried to implement. At least this time I seem to have a little money.
It's 1525,Stability 2 and I have 448 ducats.Research at the moment is early Baroque 4 in trade [1533] and infrastructure [1547].The army is 8,000,the fleet tiny.
I have a city at Cape,have taken Ivoria and it's COT,and a tiny colony on Bourbon and Fernando Poo.Exploration has just found the Sundra Straights.I have been given Muscate as a home province. I went up there and sort of got thrown out.They did give me some money in the peace settlement,which was cool.
Money is the problem.Was thinking of Zanzibar next with it's COT.
What please is your opinion?

 

[unmerged(56576)]

I'm Portugal at the moment and a new player.From what I've picked up from the forum,I've tried to implement. At least this time I seem to have a little money.
It's 1525,Stability 2 and I have 448 ducats.Research at the moment is early Baroque 4 in trade [1533] and infrastructure [1547].The army is 8,000,the fleet tiny.
I have a city at Cape,have taken Ivoria and it's COT,and a tiny colony on Bourbon and Fernando Poo.Exploration has just found the Sundra Straights.I have been given Muscate as a home province. I went up there and sort of got thrown out.They did give me some money in the peace settlement,which was cool.
Money is the problem.Was thinking of Zanzibar next with it's COT.
What please is your opinion?

My experience says that you need to colonize Brazil before trying to control Eastern trade. You need more colonies to increase your support limit and finances. Oman is weak and you surely can take Zanzibar, but you will need at least 20000 soldiers to do this job and a sizeable navy. You will get Goa by event, in AGCEEP, or you will colonize it along with Bombay, in vanilla. These will serve as bases for your expansion in India; When you have a solid base in India, take Malacca and any other Eastern CoT's and you will get very rich.

Plus, I'm used to get Early Baroque Trade in 1500. Don't invest in anything but Infrastructure until level 3, then put research on trade to maximum to get level 3, mint to build a refinery, then start researching level 4 and you will get it before 1510. After you reach level 4, mint a lot to build colonies and refineries (especially in those sugar provinces in Brazil) then leave the trade slider at very low levels. If you have about 3 or 4 refineries, level 5 can still be reached around 1560. After doing all this, leave balanced sliders for Land, naval and infrastructure and you wil get level 5 infra (and governors) around 1550.