Managing vassal limit

[Ceranai]

What is the best way to create super kings? Im hard pushing my upper vassal limit as the Roman Empire trying to recreate the old borders because ive grabbed a lot of extra land. Im using viceroyalties and i want the kingdoms to de jure drift into megakingdoms. Similarly i want all empire to assilimate into mine, if i hold multiple empires will te secondary ones de jure drift into my primary?

 

[Fiannaz]

Heres how i would do it (since you are already big and should have a good economy):
1: Get rid of viceroyalties. Its a totaly pointless system which makes vassal turn into arseclowns and rebel every now and then (more commonly at the start). It also prevents you from effectively managing the empires de jure drifting kingdoms.
2: Make sure to have all the duchies you want to bring into a certain kingdom as your own titles or non existing.
3: Get rid of viceroyalty system while still having the Imperial administration (this nets you a higher vassal limit and imperial administration doesnt require you to use the viceroyalty system) at the cost of -10 opinion from vassals which is mitigated by Born in the purple and Augustus (and whatever else you may have as positive modifiers)
4: Create the kingdom you want the de jure drift to go into.
5: Hand out the kingdom followed by all the duchies you got to a vassal of your choice (hes gonna love you so make sure you are young and he is also for best benefit. Also he should have a fair bit of land to start off so he doesnt get replaced)
6: Make sure to not create the kingdom where your capital is in. Intstead use the vassals in that kingdom to de jure drift into another kingdom either by making them kings of said kingdoms or transfering them to another kingdom (if they arent dukes ofc)
7: Dont create the kingdom where your merchant republic is located in since you dont want to hand that1 out.

 

[Ceranai]

Heres how i would do it (since you are already big and should have a good economy):
1: Get rid of viceroyalties. Its a totaly pointless system which makes vassal turn into arseclowns and rebel every now and then (more commonly at the start). It also prevents you from effectively managing the empires de jure drifting kingdoms.
2: Make sure to have all the duchies you want to bring into a certain kingdom as your own titles or non existing.
3: Get rid of viceroyalty system while still having the Imperial administration (this nets you a higher vassal limit and imperial administration doesnt require you to use the viceroyalty system) at the cost of -10 opinion from vassals which is mitigated by Born in the purple and Augustus (and whatever else you may have as positive modifiers)
4: Create the kingdom you want the de jure drift to go into.
5: Hand out the kingdom followed by all the duchies you got to a vassal of your choice (hes gonna love you so make sure you are young and he is also for best benefit. Also he should have a fair bit of land to start off so he doesnt get replaced)
6: Make sure to not create the kingdom where your capital is in. Intstead use the vassals in that kingdom to de jure drift into another kingdom either by making them kings of said kingdoms or transfering them to another kingdom (if they arent dukes ofc)
7: Dont create the kingdom where your merchant republic is located in since you dont want to hand that1 out.

So you cant de jure drift with viceroyalties? im creating a brand new aragon atm and it seems to be working with a viceroy king. What is the big downside of viceroyalties? I find it gives me good control to manage opinions, free imprison on rebelious vassals, better border micromanaging etc etc.

Unless the 37/100 de jure drift goes back to 0 when i get the titles back i dont see the problem with using viceroys. For example it let me merge syria and jerusalem into on megakingdom... although now looking at it it seems that neither title is drifting into the other so I may destroy one of them and drift it into the other

 

[kmh42]

Year 882 and already this size not bad!

 

[Ceranai]

Year 882 and already this size not bad!

Thanks lol. I was relatively lucky this run as a decadence revolt let me tear apart the abassids really early. I dont usually truce break because I like having a lot of dynasty prestige but i made an exception and took a huge chunk of muslim land right from the start. Since then ive just kept pushing the borders out. Sending my second retinue stack (10 k defence) back into india as the truces have all ran out so i can consolidate my hold there and ill keep the first legion in europe to keep pushing into France. Whats quite nice is to see my vassal kings helping out with wars of their own, for example the king of arabia has gone further south than i ever have.

I havnt raised any levies in about 100 years lol, been conquering purely with my legions of defense retinues. Money has been tight. Reinforcing both stacks costs 100 gold per month and i only make 93, but the gold from seiges and ransoms has kept me in the green.

Also worth noting that the coalition against me includes more or less every country on the map:

As you can see the game cant even fit the portraits in the normal section and it is starting to block the offer peace button completely!

 

[kmh42]

So you cant de jure drift with viceroyalties? im creating a brand new aragon atm and it seems to be working with a viceroy king. What is the big downside of viceroyalties? I find it gives me good control to manage opinions, free imprison on rebelious vassals, better border micromanaging etc etc.

After a Viceroys death all his wealth, wars, infamy, opinion mod
… goes to the top liege
Fixes:

• All things, except for the viceroy title, go to the primary heir instead of to the liege (including wealth, opinion modifiers, and infamy)

succession issues if and when the viceroy decides to rebel
Fixes:

• If a viceroy rebels, their succession is handled like normal vassals, unless for the viceroy title that goes to the liege

you're constantly annoyed with viceroys titles
...you have to reassign upon the viceroy's death
Fixes:

• There is at the death of a viceroy an event which allows the liege to choose to hand over the title directly to the heir or give it to someone else

Realm laws not sticking for viceroys
Fix:

• make them stick

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Viceroyalty Kingdoms can still have de jure drift, I don't know what you're talking about.

It's slightly more of a hassle because re-granting viceroyal titles only gives them the de jure land (great way to control vassal powet,) but this can be mitigated by giving the kingdom title to the duke whose lands you want to drift to another kingdom, or revoking said duke titles (it's free) and handing them out to the new viceroy king.

It's only slightly annoying. In exchange for that, you get much more control over vassals and vassal power.

Also to do de jure drift be absolutely sure you do not create multille empire titles. I am pretty sure no drift happens in the lands of your secondary empire title.

This is a hassle for kingdom titles of course. Give them too much land of the other kingdom and instead of de jure drift they usually make the king title themselves. You would probably need to keep and hold (or give to someone else) said king title to prevent that from happening.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Viceroys are best, they're quite easy to manage. Just give a few Viceroyal titles to each person.

 

[kmh42]

I like Viceroy Duchies and I dis like Viceroy Kingdoms. Counts under a Viceroy-Duke can't rebel. So if you get the title back there is nor rebellion. The opposite is the case of viceroy kingdoms. They get rebellions all the time and when the ruler dies you have the rebellion. When you have bad luck the warscore is already -99 and you lose and got fired from the throne.
I currently have my Empire just with viceduchies but ist a headache to managed that, so I will give them away as normal title as soon as possible.

 

[Ceranai]

After a Viceroys death all his wealth, wars, infamy, opinion mod
… goes to the top liege
Fixes:

• All things, except for the viceroy title, go to the primary heir instead of to the liege (including wealth, opinion modifiers, and infamy)

succession issues if and when the viceroy decides to rebel
Fixes:

• If a viceroy rebels, their succession is handled like normal vassals, unless for the viceroy title that goes to the liege

you're constantly annoyed with viceroys titles
...you have to reassign upon the viceroy's death
Fixes:

• There is at the death of a viceroy an event which allows the liege to choose to hand over the title directly to the heir or give it to someone else

Realm laws not sticking for viceroys
Fix:

• make them stick

It doesnt annoy me that much having to hand them out constantly, tbh I havnt had many rebellions at all so... not really sure what you mean here tbh, fixes are what solutions to viceroyalty problems?

At this point I own so much land that is under vice-royalties that im not even sure how to go about switching to feudal, it would take too long if vassals decide to rebel, i would go way over my vassal limit during the process, and im still not convinced there is any tangible advantage to switching

 

[kmh42]

When you have 40 Duchy titles to hand out it get work intens, but this is just a minor annoyance.
There are two rebellion problems right now with viceroyalties.
1. When you give out a King title this title get's all your laws. So when you have a abolished council the viceroy will have it to, no matter what the law set was before inheriting. Now his Vassals begin to rebel because he wanna remove him from the throne and he dies. In 2.5.2 the liege inherent the title AND the rebellion. In had that multiple times in my Germanic playthrough. When you don't had it then you just got lucky I guess.
2. Counts under a viceduchy are not able to rebel at all. This is nice from a liege perspective but not from a immersive or gameplay view.

Viceroys don't have to be a problem but I can be one so I mostly don't use it, especially the King-tier ones.

When you have a huge realm with this system then stick to it. It's not worth the hassel to switch to feudal. When you managed to get this big then you surly know what to do.