Also, where exactly do I look to find out whether the U.S. is getting the "out of supply" penalty? I try and mouse over everything when a battle is going on, but can't seem to find it.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Commander, you may have said, but I'm not seeing it off hand - when would you recommend to start building reactors so they are not idle but I otherwise get them going as soon as possible? I think you said tech level isotope separation is too soon - upon completion of which tech do you typically start building them? Thanks!
Well, you could try going for nuclear subs. Those are not so weak. Else you need to abandon your naval doctrine so that you can start with the 1938 Base Strike doctrine and research your way up to the 1947 doctrine at the end of that tree. That takes a while and that is why i prefer abandoning the german naval doctrine tree early on. The Base Strike doctrine tree gives best positioing for CTF. Those are feets consisting of CV-CAG and usually DD-ASW, but replacing the destroyers with CL is fine, too. With such CTF you can compete on equal terms with the US-Navy, at least if you got the numbers.
Also Naval bombers help a lot, but as it appear you do have problems with air dominance that might not be something to depend on. Your lack of airbases might prevent you from gaining air dominance, but building mor airbases in Canada might help your Interceptors. No less than 80 most modern interceptors in bases totaling size 80 only usedd by those Interceptors migththelp you to gan airsuperiority over those canadin provinces after a few week. That says nothing about advancing, that will take longer.
You should really aim at 3.3 percent by letting the bombing runs start at 23 hours. Rockets have no eyes, so darkness does not decrease their attack.
The main difference your rockets can achieve is by transporting nukes. Nukes destroying factories and population does cause dissent. The bigger the destruction, the bigger the dissent. If you hit all provinces with 10+ factories the dissent will be immense and the USA will crumble from partisan uprisings all over the country and the dissent will also cause severe combat penalties for army, navy and airforce.
During a landbattle a mouseover over an enemy division should show it as it is calculated for each division seperatly. But also on the top there is a symbol for lack of supplies.
On a more general note your example seems to prove that letting the USA in peace till the 1950ies is a major mistake. That way you let them breed a very strong military. In the 1940ies the USA lack a bit of icd, but mostly they lack manpower. By waiting they can stockpile manpower to build an even bigger miltary. If however the USA enter the war in the 1940ies they usually bring parts of their army to europe etc., there those units and be destroyed rather conveniently. Why destroy them at home if they are willing to come to yours? Use the home advantage.
Thanks Pang. On surface fleets (if I go that route) - I'll go with CV-CAG and DD-ASW to have the ASW capabilities (dunno whether US builds subs in the game, I would guess so since they did in WWII!). How much of each would you say I should have in each "stack" of units? The U.S. by now has a super powerful fleet, so I would bet my stacks should be pretty big! But honestly I'll probably just stick with nuclear subs (if anything) since I have to go back up the new. Question - how do I abandon my current fleet doctrine so I can research the other one?
OK, for for the 3.3%, I take it I indeed have to do trial and error to figure out exactly what time I should launch rockets from each city, correct? It is a little weird for me, because the "start mission" time I would have assumed would be the time the rocket actually hit DC, or if not when the rocket would actually launch. But it seems to be neither - the rockets actually fire a few hours after I set for the begin mission time. Is this few hour delay consistent each time? And is the rocket speed the same each time - i.e. not affected by weather and what not?
Your conclusion is EXACTLY what I've been thinking for days - Since I've never had a problem beating US attacks off my mainland in early/mid games, I figured I could deal with them way down the road, and focused on killing the allies completely (it was fun haha). But now the U.S. is tough as nails! Plus, they have several nukes, so when I declare war several of my troops masses in Canada are wiped out (I'm dispersing them more into other provinces for that reason).
Thanks!
OK, for for the 3.3%, I take it I indeed have to do trial and error to figure out exactly what time I should launch rockets from each city, correct? It is a little weird for me, because the "start mission" time I would have assumed would be the time the rocket actually hit DC, or if not when the rocket would actually launch. But it seems to be neither - the rockets actually fire a few hours after I set for the begin mission time. Is this few hour delay consistent each time? And is the rocket speed the same each time - i.e. not affected by weather and what not?
Your conclusion is EXACTLY what I've been thinking for days - Since I've never had a problem beating US attacks off my mainland in early/mid games, I figured I could deal with them way down the road, and focused on killing the allies completely (it was fun haha). But now the U.S. is tough as nails! Plus, they have several nukes, so when I declare war several of my troops masses in Canada are wiped out (I'm dispersing them more into other provinces for that reason).
Thanks!
Pang, didn't see you comment on one of my questions - would like your thoughts - sorry if I missed it!
Let's just say I for whatever reason cannot get my rockets to land right at 23:00. But I can launch 1 a day. So their infra is always at 20 or less out of 200. If I attack along a broad front (pretty much all the U.S. border), and keep attacking, won't the U.S. be drained of units relatively quickly, while I am not drained as quickly (my ESE is in the 130s/140s at least starting out, going to try and get it higher). Thoughts?
Thanks!
Let's just say I for whatever reason cannot get my rockets to land right at 23:00. But I can launch 1 a day. So their infra is always at 20 or less out of 200. If I attack along a broad front (pretty much all the U.S. border), and keep attacking, won't the U.S. be drained of units relatively quickly, while I am not drained as quickly (my ESE is in the 130s/140s at least starting out, going to try and get it higher). Thoughts?
Thanks!
"Why destroy them at home if they are willing to come to yours? Use the home advantage."
Haha, I missed this Pang. Oh, I know - I could just keep letting them come to me and crushing what comes over, but the challenge is knocking them out in this part of the game!
By the way, if I nuke DC, I take it one nuke completely annihilates the infrastructure there, so it would take them years and years to build it back up? Its not something that they can just repair like if you do it with regular rockets or strategic bombing, correct?
Thanks!
Haha, I missed this Pang. Oh, I know - I could just keep letting them come to me and crushing what comes over, but the challenge is knocking them out in this part of the game!
By the way, if I nuke DC, I take it one nuke completely annihilates the infrastructure there, so it would take them years and years to build it back up? Its not something that they can just repair like if you do it with regular rockets or strategic bombing, correct?
Thanks!
If they become too big the become weaker. So it is not su much a question of how big your fleets should be but how many of them you should have. Having fleets of 12 naval divisions works relativly well, you may stack up to 2 of those into one sea province. Any stack larger than 26 divisions in total will result in decreasing total attack and before long the defense per divisions has been lowered severely. The thing really is to have enough reserves and not to throw them into the battle too early. But not too late either. There is more than one way of doing things wrong.
There the principel is similar, but fleets should not exceed 6 naval divisions and again more than 2 fleeps per province is inadvisable, this time however mainly due to visibility. You could try to go up to 4 fleets and thus 24 divisions, but chances are that this will decrease the performance of your navy instead of improving it.
Select the most modern doctrine you have researched and choose to abondon it. The symbol for that is at the same place where you can start researching a tech. Repeat abandoning the most modern doctrine till all techs of year 1938+ are lost and you can start researching (one of) the 3 doctrines trees.
More or less. The time between start of the mission and the start of the bombing should be constant for a given base, so with a bit of experience you should be able to make good estimates, in fact total precision is possible.
The minimum delay of 2 hours for airunits is constant. But you can choose to set it higher if you want.
That is my understanding. But i should warn you that those very late game mechanics is something i lack experience on.
At 100% ESE by definition the ontake of supplies equals the consumption during battle. Any ESE above 100% is wasted in terms of supplies, but having a bit more than needed is a useful reserve.
A big effect that ESE has is on regaining Org. So if it is 30% vs. 120%, than they need 4 times the time to regain ORG. But for supplies to be drained relatively fast 30% ESE will be too high. You may have won the battle before the effect becomes greatly relevant. One shoul really aim at 3 stages.
First decrease supplies by simply Waiting at very low enemy ESE. Second activlely decrease supplies by Interdiction. Third decrease supply by land battle. Those increase supply consumption by a factor of 3.
If you go only for the later at 30% enemy ESE it takes 7 days and 14 hours to decrease the 27.44 supplies of Inf1941-Art1940 to zero. That is more than 7 days of constant landbattle, Org might be down to zero faster than that.
Well, there is a permanent component in the sence that the infra will have to be rebuild from scratch which takes several month per each 5%. But for the permanant component to be big enough you may need 1951 fusion bombs and quite possibly more than one on DC. Than however the result should be foolproof.
Thanks Pang! More questions:
On the fleets, if 26 is the most divisions I can have in a sea province without stacking penalty, does 13 rather than 12 unit divisions make sense to maximize attack values by keeping 2 stacks in provinces next to each other, then when 2 of my stacks are worn down, attacking from the neighboring province and retreating my worn down stacks? I know the U.S. walks around with 90+ sea divisions, so every little bit helps! But also, how many CV-CAG versus DD-ASW would you have in a 12 or 13 unit stack, whichever makes more sense? 2/3 CV-CAG, 1/3 DD-ASW? Or some other ratio?
Is there a way I can actually see the enemy ESE? Of course, when I go into supply mode and click on an enemy province its shows me 0 ESE because that is my supply there.
You said:
"The minimum delay of 2 hours for airunits is constant. But you can choose to set it higher if you want."
I think you are referring to the time between when you right-click to set the order and the first time your units can actually start the mission - that that delay is two hours. But when I was testing my rockets yesterday there was another delay. For example, if I set them to begin the mission at 5:00, they might not actually fire until 10:00! So I've got some more testing to do to see if I can really get down perfect 23:00 strikes to see if it indeed keeps DC infra at 0.00%.
If infra in DC is close to zero, but not zero (let's say its 20/200 or less), would also reducing the infra in provinces I'm going to attack to similar levels have an added benefit, or be completely wasted as basically duplicative, which duplicity adds no or little benefit?
Thanks!
On the fleets, if 26 is the most divisions I can have in a sea province without stacking penalty, does 13 rather than 12 unit divisions make sense to maximize attack values by keeping 2 stacks in provinces next to each other, then when 2 of my stacks are worn down, attacking from the neighboring province and retreating my worn down stacks? I know the U.S. walks around with 90+ sea divisions, so every little bit helps! But also, how many CV-CAG versus DD-ASW would you have in a 12 or 13 unit stack, whichever makes more sense? 2/3 CV-CAG, 1/3 DD-ASW? Or some other ratio?
Is there a way I can actually see the enemy ESE? Of course, when I go into supply mode and click on an enemy province its shows me 0 ESE because that is my supply there.
You said:
"The minimum delay of 2 hours for airunits is constant. But you can choose to set it higher if you want."
I think you are referring to the time between when you right-click to set the order and the first time your units can actually start the mission - that that delay is two hours. But when I was testing my rockets yesterday there was another delay. For example, if I set them to begin the mission at 5:00, they might not actually fire until 10:00! So I've got some more testing to do to see if I can really get down perfect 23:00 strikes to see if it indeed keeps DC infra at 0.00%.
If infra in DC is close to zero, but not zero (let's say its 20/200 or less), would also reducing the infra in provinces I'm going to attack to similar levels have an added benefit, or be completely wasted as basically duplicative, which duplicity adds no or little benefit?
Thanks!
Any fleet with more than 2 naval divisions suffers stacking penalty. It is 2% per each division above two. So 6 divisions suffer 8% each, 12 divisions suffer 20% each, 18 divisions suffer 32% each, 24 divisions suffer 44% each and 26 divisions suffer 48% each. That penalty applies on attack and defense.
You need at least 1 screen per capital ship, else a severe penalty applies. So it is 6 CV+6DD. It might make sense to add more screens if losing some seems likely.
DD and CL are screens. TP and Submarines are special categories. Everyhing else is a capital ship.
You need to set it to operate day and night, else results will be obscured.
Well, if you fail to reduce Infra in DC to 3.3%, then you would likely fail to bombard other provinces to add any meaningful reduction in ESE. If you want to reduce ESE in a province you need to reduce Infra there and in all adjacent provinces controlled by the alliance you are fighting. If however you reduce Infra in the capital, then this reduction in provincial ESE applies to all provinces.
So by bombing the capital all other reductions in infra become obsolete in terms of supplies. However, the rate of regaining Org is proportional to ESE and Infra, so reducing Infra at the front does make sense.
You can calculate it. With 1945 logitics provincial ESE in capital is (Infra + 0.05) x 1.2. So (0.033+0.05) x 1.2 = 0.0996 which however is rounded up to 0.1, the minimum that applies prior to dissent and tc-overload. Those can further decrease provincial ESE. On provincial ESE up to 8% bonus from HQ and 50% from offensive supplies can apply. So without the later but with the HQ ESE of a landunit would be 10.8%.
Sorry, the precise text is "Lack of Supply". During any LAND BATTLE, click on that battle so you see both sides of all the units involved being displayed. Are you with me so far?
When you mouse over any unit, it states everything about it (combined arms, leader experience and other bonuses, negative modifiers for weather, terrain, night, dissent and much more). Have you found it? "Lack of supply" if present appears near bottom of list on any unit suffering that.
You should mouse over all units in any battles very carefully so you learn what is happening. This game can not be learned properly by only watching the "red/green battle bar".
If you have followed explanation and are indeed mousing over the units in battle display - but can't find "lack of supply" that would be because there is no lack of supply occurring. Keep watching as battle continues because lack of supply develops over time. Lack of supply may never appear (if units in good infra/high ESE) or will take time to appear depending on infra they are on and ESE they are experiencing. But if a serious situation like capital infra very low, lack of supply will occur quickly and increase dramatically. When it reaches -50 most units automatically eliminate (even if considerable remaining org). They do not retreat... they just eliminate.
Next time you surround a unit, watch the battle as regards that unit's battle stats. Lack of supply will appear rapidly.
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As regards beginning construction on Nuclear Test Site, I think I started once I had achieved Nuclear Fuel. This means I need achieve the next 3 techs (up to Nuclear Power) before I finish the 4th Level in order to prevent having to idle construction.
But I think the levels build faster (on standard construction speed) and I still had to idle somewhat. Maybe the optimum is starting construction when halfway achieved on Exp Reactor tech.
AS REGARDS FLEETS:
How did you manage to get a large land army to Canada if you have not figured out fleets? Did you lose many TPs with their troops aboard?
War with USA should begin soon after Pearl Harbour. In 1941 the USA is not so strong. They will send over fleets that you can nicely decimate using your NAVs near your shores. Also, I have shown how effective stacks of 12 subs (SS-4) can be against 18-unit USA fleets around that time.
As Germany I never change naval doctrines but - if you do - you should do so very early (before researching any new doctrine).
By 1945 or so my Germany has several CTFs that are very successful because the majority of the USN I sank years earlier. Letting the USA build up until 1951 is a huge mistake. I honestly think the real mistake is your ahistorical game. You should learn about battle details doing Poland on very slow speed. Then follow the prompts to take Denmark and Norway. Attack France and the Low Countries historically early May 1940. You can research for the exact date. Start Barbarossa June 22/1941.
After Bitter Peace you should be in position to invade the UK Isles having built up a fair sized navy. I recommend many subs (~60 SS-4). Bismarck and Tirpitz gathered into one SAG (Surface Action Group) with all your BCs and CAs because you will be going head-to-head against 30-unit UK fleets. Only your NAVs and CAS using Fleet Destroyer leaders will save you.
There is great advantage to making separate fleets for just all BCs, all CAs and all BBs. But I would not recommend that strategy for beginners. Your safest bet is the biggest fleet you can muster (15 capitals and 15 screens) never going beyond the safety of an overhead air umbrella. I assume you managed air dominance over the English Channel. Let the enemy come to you. Once weakened your subs can start finishing them in distant places. Once reduced enough (your spies will tell you their remaining size) - with CV fleets (CTF or Carrier Task Force) in close escort you should be able to safely transport an army across the Atlantic while sinking anything that tries to interfere. 6 modern German CVs will beat a couple USA CVs in spite of doctrines. But to be safe you take Iceland, Greenland, the Azores and Bermuda beforehand and station long range NAVs all those places.
The Kriegsmarine should never operate anywhere unless they have air protection - the only exception being subs.
How did you manage to get a large land army to Canada if you have not figured out fleets? Did you lose many TPs with their troops aboard?
War with USA should begin soon after Pearl Harbour. In 1941 the USA is not so strong. They will send over fleets that you can nicely decimate using your NAVs near your shores. Also, I have shown how effective stacks of 12 subs (SS-4) can be against 18-unit USA fleets around that time.
As Germany I never change naval doctrines but - if you do - you should do so very early (before researching any new doctrine).
By 1945 or so my Germany has several CTFs that are very successful because the majority of the USN I sank years earlier. Letting the USA build up until 1951 is a huge mistake. I honestly think the real mistake is your ahistorical game. You should learn about battle details doing Poland on very slow speed. Then follow the prompts to take Denmark and Norway. Attack France and the Low Countries historically early May 1940. You can research for the exact date. Start Barbarossa June 22/1941.
After Bitter Peace you should be in position to invade the UK Isles having built up a fair sized navy. I recommend many subs (~60 SS-4). Bismarck and Tirpitz gathered into one SAG (Surface Action Group) with all your BCs and CAs because you will be going head-to-head against 30-unit UK fleets. Only your NAVs and CAS using Fleet Destroyer leaders will save you.
There is great advantage to making separate fleets for just all BCs, all CAs and all BBs. But I would not recommend that strategy for beginners. Your safest bet is the biggest fleet you can muster (15 capitals and 15 screens) never going beyond the safety of an overhead air umbrella. I assume you managed air dominance over the English Channel. Let the enemy come to you. Once weakened your subs can start finishing them in distant places. Once reduced enough (your spies will tell you their remaining size) - with CV fleets (CTF or Carrier Task Force) in close escort you should be able to safely transport an army across the Atlantic while sinking anything that tries to interfere. 6 modern German CVs will beat a couple USA CVs in spite of doctrines. But to be safe you take Iceland, Greenland, the Azores and Bermuda beforehand and station long range NAVs all those places.
The Kriegsmarine should never operate anywhere unless they have air protection - the only exception being subs.
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This is mis-understood. Stacking penalty applies the instant it is 3 or more units in a stack or in one sea province. 26 unit fleets have a huge stacking penalty. 30 unit fleets a slightly larger penalty. However, a 30-unit fleet has considerably more extra org and strength to be reduced to so win a sea battle. Frankly, a 26-unit German SAG against an equal 30-unit UK SAG (with the UK having 2 more BBs and 2 more screens... so it would be Bismarck and Tirpitz against four BB-4s) will get annihilated unless you retreat. What matters in sea battles, in my experience, is not having the optimum theoretical stacking penalty but rather having the "mostest". And that includes the best leaders which, if you open as UK, you will realize Germany is rather deficient.
Very skilled players can turn that around... and then stacking penalty becomes very important to them. So, 3 BCs with screens can totally smash a larger carrier fleet - if you are very experienced and know all the ins and outs of best brigading, and when and where to commit your attack.
But more likely the actual UK fleet your German SAG led by Bismarck and Tirpitz will run into will probably be an 18-unit SAG comprised of eight BBs and HMS Hood, with only your 0-3 BCs assisting (how many BCs depends on whose build advice you followed). So it may actually be only 2-5 German ships firing at 9 UK ships firing as long as the range exceeds 31 km. And definitely the UK will beat you on positioning. You need to be expert at using air power (and have constructed NAVs even if others advise not) to beat the odds in any surface naval engagement.
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A single Miniaturized Fission Bomb (one step below Hydrogen bomb) hit Berlin Aug 1949. The damage was nearly total:
200 infra > 0 infra
28 factories > 0 factories
22 metal > 9 metal
48 energy > 7 energy
10 MP > 2 MP
10 air base > 3 air base.
Surprisingly, the Synthetic Oil Plant was not totally destroyed (0.65/4.00).
It takes years to repair nuked province. Nuke damage repairs much slower. It is better to just build new infra and factories I imagine. The AI should move capital once nuked to forever end the horrible exploit you are discussing. Nuking a capital so all provinces have nil ESE is simply not fair given the AI usually doesn't have the sense to relocate to new capital until after you enter the capital.
This deplorable tactic is banned in all better MP games.
Commander
Been catching up so I suspect from that last that your re-launch as the US is pretty much over with Germany and any remaining allies largely defeated and destroyed?
You say this is an exploit because it is so crippling and the AI can't relocate the capital to an undestroyed province. Fully agree on that but I didn't think an human player could relocate a capital either? Am I wrong please?
Steve
Been catching up so I suspect from that last that your re-launch as the US is pretty much over with Germany and any remaining allies largely defeated and destroyed?
You say this is an exploit because it is so crippling and the AI can't relocate the capital to an undestroyed province. Fully agree on that but I didn't think an human player could relocate a capital either? Am I wrong please?
Steve
Humans cannot do that either. There are 2 ways to relocate capital. First via event, but there are few events tht do that. Second by savegame edit, which of course the human can do for AI states aswell.
Also it is possible to lose the capital, in that case a new temporal capital is chosen, but this effects is rather temporary.
Also it is possible to lose the capital, in that case a new temporal capital is chosen, but this effects is rather temporary.
Thanks guys! And Commander, I finally found the battle screen or whatever its called. Now all is clear!
As to how I got my troops over, its was super easy since given my very unorthodox game the U.S. never declared war on me! After I took down France and the U.K., I took out all of Asia (save Japan, which never got into a war with the U.S., and which I did not bring into my alliance until way after 1945, probably closer to 1950!), then attacked Canada and with it the last of the allies. So now the U.S. stands alone.
As to how I got my troops over, its was super easy since given my very unorthodox game the U.S. never declared war on me! After I took down France and the U.K., I took out all of Asia (save Japan, which never got into a war with the U.S., and which I did not bring into my alliance until way after 1945, probably closer to 1950!), then attacked Canada and with it the last of the allies. So now the U.S. stands alone.
Ah, very interesting. Fool the USA into not noticing WW2 is happening.
Very good. You really should be studying the battles for the details they are telling you. There is so much too learn. Are you aware of Shore Bombardment... and the fleet size needed to get the maximum? Do you know the maximum? All this can be figured out from Battle Screen/Display/Whatever to call it. The contribution of various parts of the game to any battle can be inspected... and so decisions made regarding what to build or how to do things better.
Especially important is avoiding Over Command. There are important symbols on line across top that you may want to learn to alert you to specific important conditions of a battle whenever present.
Very good. You really should be studying the battles for the details they are telling you. There is so much too learn. Are you aware of Shore Bombardment... and the fleet size needed to get the maximum? Do you know the maximum? All this can be figured out from Battle Screen/Display/Whatever to call it. The contribution of various parts of the game to any battle can be inspected... and so decisions made regarding what to build or how to do things better.
Especially important is avoiding Over Command. There are important symbols on line across top that you may want to learn to alert you to specific important conditions of a battle whenever present.