Man, 'merica is 1951 is one tough nut to crack!

[Saltynuts]

SU gone. Allies gone. I've got tons and tons of troops all across the U.S./Canadian border. Probably like 24 or more stack of interceptors at various Canadian airports (spread out as much as possible), set to air superiority on the U.S. region south of them. A couple stack of strategic bombers in the Azores set to bomb New York.

I attack. My armies attack all across the border. They can take a lot of territory (and reduce the U.S. AI from 850ish to low 600ish), but getting further is tough. My interceptors are essentially reduced to sitting on the runway and repairing after only a few days. The U.S. controls the air completely. They attack me with strategic bombers almost exclusively so far as I can tell. I've seen a stack of 36 of them! U.S. also nuked me in one game haha. My couple of stacks of strategic bombers are, like my fighters, grounded with heavy, heavy damages after only one sortie.

But the hardest thing is the strength of the U.S. land units. Even though I've essentially researched everything relevant, and my land units are completely up to date having all techs (same true with my interceptors and strategic bombers), the U.S. land units just seem pound for pound much better than my German land units. I just don't know why.

Any suggestions on best way to finish off the U.S.? Nukes (the one tech that I never really fully developed)? Mass strategic bomber builds?

Thanks!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

But the hardest thing is the strength of the U.S. land units. Even though I've essentially researched everything relevant, and my land units are completely up to date having all techs (same true with my interceptors and strategic bombers), the U.S. land units just seem pound for pound much better than my German land units. I just don't know why.

Somehow i really doubt that. Germany should always be able to equal the quality of landunits, usually it is at least slightly superior. If you use an armour only army the USA should not be a match for you. Still due to superior numbers they would be a though nut to crack.

Did you somehow use up your supplies? Every bit below 100% supply stockpile does reduce the combat efficiency of a land unit.

As for air dominance i am not quite surprised that the USA are rather strong and together with nukes that may shift the favour of land battles in their favour. Your main problem might be ESE. Yours might be lower than that of the USA. A nuke on Washington can change this permanantly. Until then daily logistical strikes have to keep infra in Washington DC very low. In 1951 tactical bombers do suffice for that job. Strategic bombers have mainly the advantage of batter combat values. Also you could use rockets for the job. One ICBM a day keeps the supplies away.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks Pang! I do have some tanks, but most is motorized (and some mech).

It might be the supply thing, but the ESE for me in Canada is generally pretty darned high - like 100% (or more?) generally. But I like the bombing/nuking Washington idea, regardless, to cut out their supply and weaken them. On this front, a couple of questions:

1. I can carry a nuclear bomb on strategic bombers, correct? So when I finally build one, how do I load it onto a bomber?

2. Never done rockets either - what is the process? I assume I have to build a "test site" I think they are called? Then build and place the rockets at said test site? Then how do I get the nukes attached to it?

Basically I'm clueless about nukes and rockets both.

Thanks!

 

[Saltynuts]

And how do I even build nukes? I think I have the tech, haven't seen the option yet (I'm sure I just missed it). Thanks!

Haha, and you were not joking about 1 ICBM a day keeping the supplies away? If so that will be my goal!

 

[Commander666]

1. I can carry a nuclear bomb on strategic bombers, correct? So when I finally build one, how do I load it onto a bomber?

Yes, STR can carry nukes of any type. Next to where you attach/detach brigades to bombers, there will appear a "Nuclear button" that let's you attach a nuke. That is an extra attachment, and does not require getting rid of the ESC/FTR brigade. You can attach the nuke, and then drop it off to return to your stockpile with no problem. There is no delay like with brigades. You can pick up a nuke from your stockpile with a STR parked anywhere in the world.

You can not carry a nuke with Tactical bombers. You can not carry a nuke with a rocket until you have achieved Miniaturized Fission Bomb.

2. Never done rockets either - what is the process? I assume I have to build a "test site" I think they are called?

No, a Rocket Test Site is not needed, AFAIK. Rocket Test Sites speed research, and you should have built at least a Level 1 early in the game for that and historic reasons. For rockets just research them so you can build them. You need ICBM. But it might be that getting the secret weapons techs to research rockets is affected by Rocket Test Site. I not sure, but that would be logical. As Germany I could always research to ICBM having just 1 level Test Site. As USA I have a Level 2 test site, it is 1949 but I can't research even just Flying Bomb even though I did all the Industrial Rocketry techs long ago.

Then build and place the rockets at said test site? Then how do I get the nukes attached to it?

No, rockets will place anywhere you have a line of owned provinces to your capital. Placing them at Brest is the obvious choice to reach Washington, but they can be further back as they have the range. I think the enemy can use Port Strike to damage your rockets, so maybe place them in Paris instead. They need to gain 100% ORG before they will fly.

 

[Commander666]

It might be the supply thing,

During any land combat just check if you got a "Lack of Supplies" negative modifier in the details for that combat display. If so, and it increases with duration of combat, you have a supply problem that can seriously affect you winning.

but the ESE for me in Canada is generally pretty darned high - like 100% (or more?) generally.

100% ESE in Canada is actually rather low, and I would think insufficient to field a large modern army successfully. If you had built 200 infra line Berlin>Rostock outlet, your ESE at targets Halifax and Quebec City (once repaired) should be ~150% because those are Level 10 ports with 200 infra (usually by time Germany attacks). As a comparison, in Havana (Level 4 port with only 160 infra) I am getting 129.13% ESE in 1944.

Because ESE will drop rapidly as you go inland from Quebec City, you really want the best at your target that you can theoretically achieve - which means starting with a 200 infra outlet at Rostock that is pumping out 235.27% ESE (reading taken late 1944 before Advanced Logistics Tech 1945 achieved).

 

[Commander666]

And how do I even build nukes? I think I have the tech, haven't seen the option yet (I'm sure I just missed it).

You achieve the Secret Weapons tech Nuclear Waste Bomb. To get that active you will need to have proceeded considerably in the Industrial Nuclear Techs tree; and built a nuclear reactor of maximum size you can.

Because of year of techs, it is rather difficult building reactor size over Level 5 before 1951. However, Level 4 seems OK to get the Secret Weapons to become active (happens via Event).

NOTE: Advancing in the secret weapons techs is another way of increasing ability to add levels to the reactor before 1951. Every weapons tech increases size of allowed reactor, so that with 1948 Miniaturized Fission Bomb achieved,you can build to a Level 10 reactor. Coordinated properly, you should not need to idle your reactor in Production, as that is a huge idle fee.

IMPORTANTLY, as soon as you have your first bomb tech achieved, push the Nuclear Sites Funding slider in Production Tab to the max. Depending on what level your reactor, your degree of funding and possibly more I don't know, your first bomb may appear in about a year or more after you achieve the first bomb tech. The Nuclear symbol in the top row of stockpile readings will change from 0 to a 1.

Be sure you have a Strategic Bomber as missiles can't carry the early nukes (and Tactical bombers never), When you do the bomb run, don't have any other aircraft over target except the bomber or stack including bomber carrying the nuke - or you will vaporize your other aircraft.

To summarize, the requirements are (more or less):
1) Advance in Industrial Nuclear techs to Nuclear Power
2) Meanwhile build reactor to max allowed size for tech achieved. One can start nuclear testsite construction with achieving Isotope Separation but I recommend delaying to avoid needing to idle reactor production because adding a level to reactor is quicker than achieving next tech to permit increasing reactor size. The reactor building costs 50IC and it takes several years to build to level 5. But to idle reactor production is 20 IC IIRC. As there is gearing, idling the reactor line is a concern.
3) With achieving Nuclear Power you may get Event that unlocks the Nuclear Secret Weapons techs.
4) Probably with reactor at size 4, you will get that Event.
5) With achieving nuclear weapons techs, you can increase reactor past Level 5.
6) You might have 1st bomb a year after Dirty Bomb tech achieved.
7) Bomb production increases with larger reactor and more Nuclear Sites funding.

In short, it is a huge investment over many years to finally be able to deliver a nuke because it further involves having STR or ICBMs. Preceding the process by doing Rocket Test Site is invaluable to assist with the considerable research regarding nuclear techs, and just a good exercise to get used to budgeting away a big chunk like the 30IC needed to do that.

However, with just a couple nukes and perhaps 50 ICBMs hitting USA in a timed attack you will most likely cause a rebellion to erupt, and the States will crumble without ever needing to attack it.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks so much Commander. I actually think I did the 200% infra line to Rostock per your advice, will take a look at that and what my actual ESE is in Canada. I bet you and Pang or right - my supply is getting cramped a good bit while moving south into the US, and that is what is making it "feel" like the U.S. units are a good bit better. Will check out the battle supplier modifier!

OK guys, I'm going to try these things over the next couple nights - many thanks and I will report back!

 

[Commander666]

many thanks and I will report back!

Yes, it would be interesting if you provided exact ESE readings at key places (targets of Halifax and Quebec City, and on your front line (Location name?). Be sure you also record your dissent. Preferably, you have no dissent when the readings are done.

To get reading do NOT use the reading on the units. Instead switch to Supply Map Mode, and mouse over the provinces. Record province infra level as that will affect ESE. This is reason provincial repairs should occur at 100%... or conquest slowed so repair can be 100% (and avoid getting into huge repair debt).

The other thing you should check (often) is that at 23:00 hours there is supply in your overseas depot. Supply usage will vary drastically with army activity, so you want minimum 1000+ supplies before midnight, and about 2500 supplies at midnight. If you low on convoys, auto-control of convoys may result in insufficient depot at Canada. Solution is to go to manual, or convert many transports.

 

[Commander666]

my supply is getting cramped a good bit while moving south into the US, and that is what is making it "feel" like the U.S. units are a good bit better.

"Moving south into the USA" is not the ideal way to run the campaign. You decrease ESE every province you go further, while increasing partisans to double your negative effects. Now you need GAR (but deploying hurts your TC) or many CAV for partisan control.

A much better way is to not go far inland in Canada - even forget about Ottawa. Instead, with Marines assisting, attack down the eastern seaboard from Halifax. Your mobiles loop inwards from the coast as needed to get surrounds. But importantly your ESE remains high because every coastal province is a new ESE target; and you can transport in GAR to so get the coast completely green without counter-productive SRing needed. Further, with enough army pre-positioned, you might even start new beachhead at Miami which will pull away defenders from around Washington.

Alternately, if you wish to go via Canada, a plan to annex it quickly and then liberate Canada soon after to end the revolt risk there is advisable. But you need take the VCs at Vancouver and Vancouver Island. Paratroopers can be invaluable to achieve that.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

1. I can carry a nuclear bomb on strategic bombers, correct? So when I finally build one, how do I load it onto a bomber?

It is done similar to attaching a brigade. The same is true for rocket divisions, but those need the nuke1948 tech for loading a nuke onto them.

2. Never done rockets either - what is the process? I assume I have to build a "test site" I think they are called?

You donnot need a test site. The test size increases your daily research of rocket components of tech. A size 3 rocket test site increases research by as much as skill 9 team with matching expertise, so your daily research will at least be doubled, in many cases it will be tripled due to using a lesser tech team. A size 3 rocket test is highly adviseable. Below size 3 you leave too much potential unused, above it you have diminishing returns on investment.

The same is true for nuclear test reactor, only there it is nuclear_physics and nuclear_engineering that are affected by the test reactor. Get it up to size 3 ASAP. You will likely have to build it one step at a time as the maximum size allowed depends on your tech level.

Later you still want to increase the test reactor ASAP. You want to have it at size 5 in 1944 and size 7 in 1945 and get it up to size 10 ASAP. The speed you build nukes depends strongly on the test reactor, anything below size 6 is to be avoided. When you have high size test reactor and funding to the nuclear reactor is at 100% you will produce nukes a(u)tomatically.

As for rockets it is different. The rocket divisions are something you need to build like airdivisions. Be aware that they cost you 0.1 manpower per division.

Haha, and you were not joking about 1 ICBM a day keeping the supplies away?

It had a joking component, but it was meant as serios advise. One ICBM a day is 36 manpower a year, strategic bombers may suffer greater losses to achieve the same. As you can use the general strategic bombardment when using rockets. They have so much firepower that they can use this less specialised mission effectively.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks a ton guys. So many questions. But let's start with rockets, since I couldn't find where to build escort fighters last night (I figured it out before work this morning) so abandoned building strategic bombers and am instead building a TON of rockets. They are like V-2 v3 or something - 8000km range. Questions on this front:

If I load too many into one province will they not gain org/strength as fast as they might otherwise?

I assume with an 8000km range they can reach from France to Washington DC no sweat?

Pang, I think you said that if I continuously nail DC supplies will be reduced in the time periods you mentioned (a month or two generally). So no need/desire to tag New York and other places with lots of factories, just keep tagging DC? How often should I hit it with a rocket to keep supplies getting out of there to an absolute minimum? I'm building tons and tons of rockets so can probably tag it pretty often. Is there a way to actually tell what the infra in DC is down to after I shoot rockets into it?

Nukes, however, are a bit off as I started researching the nuke tecs too late.

By the way commander, using the supply mode and mouseover my ESE on the Canadian coasts were generally in the 130s, some even in the 140s. Towards the interior they were a bit lower, consistent with what you said regarding strategy. That was before I annexed Canada. I'll check what they are now later tonight or tomorrow.

Gotta run, more questions to come! Thanks!

 

[Saltynuts]

Edit - sorry, they are V2 A9/10 I'm building.

 

[Commander666]

If I load too many into one province will they not gain org/strength as fast as they might otherwise?

Rockets work like aircraft. Overload the base and they suffer slowed org gain.

I assume with an 8000km range they can reach from France to Washington DC no sweat?

Please rebase an aircraft to any place you want to measure from. The instant rebased, measurements are from that base. No need to have aircraft actually fly to that base. Now you can measure exactly the distance to any place in the world from any where in Europe, and so know to where a rocket could reach from its future base. Rockets don't SR easily (they do but it takes months) so use this method to insure your rocket is not placed out of range.

Is there a way to actually tell what the infra in DC is down to after I shoot rockets into it?

Place a surface ship off the coast adjacent to any province you want info on. It should be safe if it is a modern DD and doesn't stay there... just sweep by. If you could fly an aircraft over province, that will also reveal what you seek.

CORRECTION: You have most of the province infra if you just click on enemy province. You can see the infra level, plus much more. Moving a ship next door (or aircraft overhead) gives you extra info such as units, supply depot, reactor if there, etc. CORRECTION: "gives you extra info" not extra infra. Sorry.

Nukes, however, are a bit off as I started researching the nuke tecs too late.

Yes, you should have had Werner Heisenberg tackling Isotope Separation in late 1940, or early 1941 at the very latest.

using the supply mode and mouseover my ESE on the Canadian coasts were generally in the 130s, some even in the 140s. Towards the interior they were a bit lower, consistent with what you said regarding strategy.

You measurements are not measurements but "impressions generalized". In any case, the Canadian coast varies very much depending on where your target is. I don't know if you even have any target that is a level 10 port, but I had suggested you publish an exact reading stated where and with its infra and dissent. Basically, your ESE generalizations sound low. I would expect ESE at Halifax or Quebec City if repaired fully to 200 infra and with nil dissent to be 148.50% (1944 without Advanced Logistics tech). Unfortunately I deleted my German game when I had landed on America's coast so can't tell you precisely what it should be - but compared to German ESE at other provinces with same infra/same naval base world-wide in my present game - that is what you are looking for. If you under 148% ESE at Halifax, you doing something wrong.

PS: Did you check your depot at 23:00 hours regarding supplies?

 

[Commander666]

Edit - sorry, they are V2 A9/10 I'm building.

ICBM is a bit easier.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

If I load too many into one province will they not gain org/strength as fast as they might otherwise?

They are considered airdivisions, so too many air divisions in an airbase slows gaining Org.

Pang, I think you said that if I continuously nail DC supplies will be reduced in the time periods you mentioned (a month or two generally).

This statement should be divided into 2 statements.

First if ESE is very low(10% in the example given), than supplies stockpiles of land units slowly decrease towards zero. Once it is zero units starve at 35% per week. That point is reached faster for unbrigaded divisions, but as USA brigades its troops properly that should make no difference. What can make a difference is the interdiction mission, especially against unentrenched enemies. Interdiction actively destroys the stockpiles of land units. With TAC1949-ESC1951 and 1952 Theater Organization Doctrine that happens at twice the speed than at tech level 1940.

Second keeeping the Infra of the capital continuously below 3.3% keeps ESE below 10%. A strong bombing run a day can achieve this. Repairs occur from 23 hours to 24 hours, also known as midnight. So your best best is command a stratagic attack by your ICBM with 8000 km range so that the bombing starts exactly at 23 hours each day. That means that the V2 must start flying from say Brest or Paris many hours before that. You should give this careful attention. I estimate that one ICBM a day will suffice for the intended effect, at least once infra is down. To down it below 3.3% in the first place you may need a bit more firepower. On the first day 2 or even 3 ICBM might be needed to decrease Infra from 200% to 3.3% or less.

So no need/desire to tag New York and other places with lots of factories, just keep tagging DC?

Unfortunatly that will suffice fo the intended effect. I say unfortunatly because it is a mean exploit to just hit the capital to cripple the entire country.

Is there a way to actually tell what the infra in DC is down to after I shoot rockets into it?

Select the province on the map. The current Infra level is not hidden and even if it were one ICBM a day would give you more accurate information during the few hours of the bombing run it self. Maybe you like to watch how the rocket flys from Brest to DC one province an hour?

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks guys! Going to have to began rocket attacks ASAP! Hopefully tonight, if not tomorrow. Will have tons of follow up questions for sure. One question off hand. You guys are mentioning ICBMs. I don't see ICBM's in my list of aircraft I can build in the production menu. However, in the tech screen there is the tech "International Ballistic Missile", which I have, it says it allows "V2 new model - V2A9/10". And V2A9/10 is what I'm building a tons of currently. So I assume this is indeed ICBMs that I am building?

USA, your days are numbered!!!

 

[Saltynuts]

By the way Pang, you mentioned watching ICBMs attacking from Brest to DC one province an hour - going to be great! But I liberated France, and it is owned by France. So I can't seem to place my ICBMs there. I tried SRing them there, but that doesn't seem to work. I take it I can launch from Brest only in situations where I have not liberated France and thus I own it?

Shouldn't matter though - the atlantic ocean is well under half of the missiles' 8000km range, so I suspect I can nail DC from far west Germany no sweat!

Thanks!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

And V2A9/A10 is what I'm building a tons of currently. So I assume this is indeed ICBMs that I am building?

Yes. ICBM is the general name of the unit, but when playing germany the picture and name are replaced by V2A9/A10. That is for flavour only, it has no real effect.

By the way Pang, you mentioned watching ICBMs attacking from Brest to DC one province an hour - going to be great! But I liberated France, and it is owned by France. So I can't seem to place my ICBMs there. I tried SRing them there, but that doesn't seem to work. I take it I can launch from Brest only in situations where I have not liberated France and thus I own it?

Well, that is one of the reasons why i donnot liberate a lot. The less allies one has the less stress with such anomalies one has.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks Pang! Why is it best for the attack to happen at 23 hours, when repair is occurring? I would have guessed that such would mean the damage is immediately repaired, and that you would want for it to hit at 24 hours or 1 hour so that the damage knocks back down any repairs that were just made.

In any event, I'm going to have to use some trial and error to get my rockets hit at just the right time. But that's OK, I've got TONS of them!!!