wow, a 34 ship navy! a worthy prize!
btw, that tactic of sending a 4k cavalry army ahead sounds effective.
btw, that tactic of sending a 4k cavalry army ahead sounds effective.
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noooope. u built ships the months b4. they count too!
"This now makes it 3 navies from annexation, 1 from construction."
nice try with the fast one....
well spotted Saskagesh, we did build a small navy to boost the ex-Aden ships for the invasion of Zanzibar. Back to the AAR...
reign of Turman part 3, 1540-
Relations with Turkey were steady at -200, they were provoked by our succession of annexations of minor Sunni states (Hafsids, Aden, Oman), and they were keen to reverse the loss of Adana. The expected DoW against us came in 1540. Their allies Wallachia and Algiers supported Turkey, so we were to fight a war on two fronts.
2nd Mameluk-Sunni war, 1540-1553 major incidents:
1540
* Turman + 15k army invade Syria, and are joined by a 30k Persian army. The Persians decide to assault the small fortess of Damascus, and we automatically join in. Surprisingly the city falls! We take this opportunity to offer a white peace to Turkey, and they accept. We now swing our troops westward to Algiers.
1541-48
* a series of successfull seiges of minimal/ small Algerian fortresses.
1548
* Algiers annexed, ex-Algerian navy of 20/0/5 captured.
* Turman retires from military command
[this is how I explain the second occasion in this IGC where the historic leader "dies" while the monarch is not affected]
* an enraged Turkey DoWs again, joined by Nubia/Ethiopia, Morocco and former vassals Hedjaz. We are back to a three front war, but this time without a historic battle leader. The only consolation is that our allies Persia support us.
1549-1550
* a round-robin of seiges results in Damascus falling to Persia, Alexandretta falling to Turkey, and Acre falling to Mameluks. Score is 2-1 to the Mameluk alliance.
* Turkish diplomats offer us a peace + Judea, we accept. We are now very close to our 1492 starting position vs Turkey, having gained Adana but lost Syria.
1551
* Morocco takes Orania, a peace offer - Orania is accepted so that we can concentrate our troops against Hedjaz and Nubia. Our revenge against Morocco will surely come in time...
1551-1553
* Mameluk troops recapture 3 unfortified Egyptian provinces/ colonies lost to Nubia. Peace agreed, - colony of Cataract.
* 2nd Mamaluk troops successfully take four Hedjaz provinces, Hedjaz are annexed. This is the fourth Sunni minor to fall under Mameluk control.
peace again, 1553-1562
As our land tech is now equal to Turkey, investment is now poured in to infrastructure. In 1562 Turman dies, and Zengi ascends to the throne.
Our objectives during Turman's reign were to
1. use alliance with Persia as a defensive shield against likely Turkish DoWs. Only use Mameluk troops against Turkey after Persian troops are defeated. Try for status quo in peace settlements vs Turkey.
2. use Mameluk troops under Turman to sack and annex minor Sunni countries.
3. maintain investment in land tech, to keep at same levels as Turkey, any balance to go to infrastucture to prepare for promotin of bailiffs/ chief judges.
and we
1. acheived better than objective. In several defensive wars against Turkey, our allies Persia made some valuable contributions in battle, and we even managed some minor territorial gains in peace settlements.
2. acheived objective. Aden, Oman, Algiers and Hedjaz have been annexed.
3. acheived objective. We have same land tech as Turkey. Unfortuneately, there has been very little surplus, and we only have bailiffs in one of our core provinces.
During Turman's reign from 1520 to 1553 our monthly income has risen from 19d to 41d. Not yet at Turkish levels, but we may be ready to challenge the Turk head-to-head for Islamic leadership soon.
reign of Turman part 3, 1540-
Relations with Turkey were steady at -200, they were provoked by our succession of annexations of minor Sunni states (Hafsids, Aden, Oman), and they were keen to reverse the loss of Adana. The expected DoW against us came in 1540. Their allies Wallachia and Algiers supported Turkey, so we were to fight a war on two fronts.
2nd Mameluk-Sunni war, 1540-1553 major incidents:
1540
* Turman + 15k army invade Syria, and are joined by a 30k Persian army. The Persians decide to assault the small fortess of Damascus, and we automatically join in. Surprisingly the city falls! We take this opportunity to offer a white peace to Turkey, and they accept. We now swing our troops westward to Algiers.
1541-48
* a series of successfull seiges of minimal/ small Algerian fortresses.
1548
* Algiers annexed, ex-Algerian navy of 20/0/5 captured.
* Turman retires from military command
[this is how I explain the second occasion in this IGC where the historic leader "dies" while the monarch is not affected]
* an enraged Turkey DoWs again, joined by Nubia/Ethiopia, Morocco and former vassals Hedjaz. We are back to a three front war, but this time without a historic battle leader. The only consolation is that our allies Persia support us.
1549-1550
* a round-robin of seiges results in Damascus falling to Persia, Alexandretta falling to Turkey, and Acre falling to Mameluks. Score is 2-1 to the Mameluk alliance.
* Turkish diplomats offer us a peace + Judea, we accept. We are now very close to our 1492 starting position vs Turkey, having gained Adana but lost Syria.
1551
* Morocco takes Orania, a peace offer - Orania is accepted so that we can concentrate our troops against Hedjaz and Nubia. Our revenge against Morocco will surely come in time...
1551-1553
* Mameluk troops recapture 3 unfortified Egyptian provinces/ colonies lost to Nubia. Peace agreed, - colony of Cataract.
* 2nd Mamaluk troops successfully take four Hedjaz provinces, Hedjaz are annexed. This is the fourth Sunni minor to fall under Mameluk control.
peace again, 1553-1562
As our land tech is now equal to Turkey, investment is now poured in to infrastructure. In 1562 Turman dies, and Zengi ascends to the throne.
Our objectives during Turman's reign were to
1. use alliance with Persia as a defensive shield against likely Turkish DoWs. Only use Mameluk troops against Turkey after Persian troops are defeated. Try for status quo in peace settlements vs Turkey.
2. use Mameluk troops under Turman to sack and annex minor Sunni countries.
3. maintain investment in land tech, to keep at same levels as Turkey, any balance to go to infrastucture to prepare for promotin of bailiffs/ chief judges.
and we
1. acheived better than objective. In several defensive wars against Turkey, our allies Persia made some valuable contributions in battle, and we even managed some minor territorial gains in peace settlements.
2. acheived objective. Aden, Oman, Algiers and Hedjaz have been annexed.
3. acheived objective. We have same land tech as Turkey. Unfortuneately, there has been very little surplus, and we only have bailiffs in one of our core provinces.
During Turman's reign from 1520 to 1553 our monthly income has risen from 19d to 41d. Not yet at Turkish levels, but we may be ready to challenge the Turk head-to-head for Islamic leadership soon.
good work on holding back the turk and rolling across africa. i wonder when the europeans will notice you...
Hopefully the European powers won't notice me for a little while. There are Turkey and Persia to deal with first.
But I fear that my Land tech levels are falling behind the Christian powers, and that re-capture of ex-Moslem southern Spanish and Sicilian provinces may remain a dream ...
But I fear that my Land tech levels are falling behind the Christian powers, and that re-capture of ex-Moslem southern Spanish and Sicilian provinces may remain a dream ...
Yes, I agree with Bocaj. The muslem nation may have bad tech, but they have so cheap forces so you will tak it, you only need enough forces that are willing to give thier life for you
if you advoid battles, and do the cover and smother with cheap foot, i think it could be done. also spain doesnt seem to build up fortifications that austira and france do, imho. anyhow, i thing at a time.
Been reading your AAR now again
I have similar experience with the Omani navy. It seems like that the Omani navy, in peace time, moves between Zansibar and Muscat. If they are in Muscat when you DoW them they also remain there. Only exception seems to be if they have forces on Zanzibar witch they wish to transport, but even then they arent necissarily using all their naval power for the transport. You can notice these things if your playing a sunni nation and having RM with them or, of course, playing without the fog of war option.
Edit: I would love a screen pic =)
I have similar experience with the Omani navy. It seems like that the Omani navy, in peace time, moves between Zansibar and Muscat. If they are in Muscat when you DoW them they also remain there. Only exception seems to be if they have forces on Zanzibar witch they wish to transport, but even then they arent necissarily using all their naval power for the transport. You can notice these things if your playing a sunni nation and having RM with them or, of course, playing without the fog of war option.
Edit: I would love a screen pic =)
RE screenies. I have some saved, but haven't worked out how to set up a website with my ISP. Perhaps next month...
reign of Zengi, 1562-1598
A middling monarch, stats of 5/3/5. Unfortunately, he is not willing to lead our troops in battle. [I checked the savegame file, we have no more historic military leaders until 1760 ]. Zengi rules for only one year before war breaks out again...
3rd Mameluk-Sunni war, 1563-1573 major incidents:
1563
* war starts after Morocco DoW vs Mameluks, joined soon by Turkish + Nubian DoW. Our allies Persia decide not to help!
1564
* Turks take Alexandretta (Adana) and Aleppo. They offer us peace, -Adana - Aleppo - 130d. We accept. Why? To give us time to (1) annex Morocco and prevent future two-front wars, and (2) invest in land tech, as we have slipped behind Turkey, and do not have a historic battle leader to lift the fighting strength of our armies, and (3) to re-enter an alliance with Persia, perhaps next time they will come to our aid, and take the brunt of Turkish hostility
* Moroccan army + 68 cannon capture our fortess in Atlas, and march on Al Djazar
1565-1566
* Mameluk troops assemble near Tunis, then march to lift the seige on Al Djazar
1567
* Atlas retaken, and Oran (Orania) falls to Mameluks
1568
* Marrakesh falls. Only one Moroccan province now remains - Sahara - but this has a supply limit of 0 (zero!) and a small fortress. We prepare for horrible attrition.
1569
* Turkey re-enters the war. Turks take Jordan, then move to lebanon to beseige Beirut.
1571
* Mameluk assault of Sahara fails, and then attrition reduces Mameluk forces to <5000 before we can reinforce, and seige is broken!
* Turkish peace offer accepted, -Jordan.
1573
* Sahara finally falls to assault, Morocco annexed.
peace then war, peace then war, 1573-1598
All North African Sunni states have now fallen to Mameluks, but we have lost three Middle Eastern provinces to Turkey. We continue to invest in land tech, trying to catch up to Turkey. In 1587 we have a very useful random event, our fortress in Beirut is raised from small to medium. This will prove very useful as a defensive hinge in the next Turkish wars.
In 1579-1580 a brief war is fought against Turkey, we have prepared well and quickly take fortresses in Syria and Jordan, as the Turks are still attacking the walls of Beirut. We accept the Turkish peace offer and regain Syria.
In 1585-86 another short war against Turkey is fought. This time we station a 70K army in Syria, and this defeats two successive 25k Turkish armies in pithced battles, while a Mameluk seige army + 54 cannon takles Amman (Jordan). Turkey offers peace, and we recover Jordan.
Zengi dies in 1592. In his reign we have annexed Morocco, and in four wars against Turkey have lost three provinces, then retaken two. In the next post I'll take a quick look back on the first 100 years of the AAR, and outline the strategic choices we have for the next 100 years...
reign of Zengi, 1562-1598
A middling monarch, stats of 5/3/5. Unfortunately, he is not willing to lead our troops in battle. [I checked the savegame file, we have no more historic military leaders until 1760
]. Zengi rules for only one year before war breaks out again...3rd Mameluk-Sunni war, 1563-1573 major incidents:
1563
* war starts after Morocco DoW vs Mameluks, joined soon by Turkish + Nubian DoW. Our allies
Persia decide not to help!1564
* Turks take Alexandretta (Adana) and Aleppo. They offer us peace, -Adana - Aleppo - 130d. We accept. Why? To give us time to (1) annex Morocco and prevent future two-front wars, and (2) invest in land tech, as we have slipped behind Turkey, and do not have a historic battle leader to lift the fighting strength of our armies, and (3) to re-enter an alliance with Persia, perhaps next time they will come to our aid, and take the brunt of Turkish hostility
* Moroccan army + 68 cannon capture our fortess in Atlas, and march on Al Djazar
1565-1566
* Mameluk troops assemble near Tunis, then march to lift the seige on Al Djazar
1567
* Atlas retaken, and Oran (Orania) falls to Mameluks
1568
* Marrakesh falls. Only one Moroccan province now remains - Sahara - but this has a supply limit of 0 (zero!) and a small fortress. We prepare for horrible attrition.
1569
* Turkey re-enters the war. Turks take Jordan, then move to lebanon to beseige Beirut.
1571
* Mameluk assault of Sahara fails, and then attrition reduces Mameluk forces to <5000 before we can reinforce, and seige is broken!
* Turkish peace offer accepted, -Jordan.
1573
* Sahara finally falls to assault, Morocco annexed.
peace then war, peace then war, 1573-1598
All North African Sunni states have now fallen to Mameluks, but we have lost three Middle Eastern provinces to Turkey. We continue to invest in land tech, trying to catch up to Turkey. In 1587 we have a very useful random event, our fortress in Beirut is raised from small to medium. This will prove very useful as a defensive hinge in the next Turkish wars.
In 1579-1580 a brief war is fought against Turkey, we have prepared well and quickly take fortresses in Syria and Jordan, as the Turks are still attacking the walls of Beirut. We accept the Turkish peace offer and regain Syria.
In 1585-86 another short war against Turkey is fought. This time we station a 70K army in Syria, and this defeats two successive 25k Turkish armies in pithced battles, while a Mameluk seige army + 54 cannon takles Amman (Jordan). Turkey offers peace, and we recover Jordan.
Zengi dies in 1592. In his reign we have annexed Morocco, and in four wars against Turkey have lost three provinces, then retaken two. In the next post I'll take a quick look back on the first 100 years of the AAR, and outline the strategic choices we have for the next 100 years...
On first reading, losing 3 provs to Turkey in exchange for 3 Moroccon provs seems a huge price. Was it really worth it?
Turkey
What does Turkey's allience look like? If you can bribe them enough to pull 'em into your allience with Persia. That would keep the pressure off your borders long enough to expand your position a little more, not to mention helping against those Spanish armies while your kicking the crap out of Sicily and co.
Also, how do you add personal quotes on the bottom of each post??
What does Turkey's allience look like? If you can bribe them enough to pull 'em into your allience with Persia. That would keep the pressure off your borders long enough to expand your position a little more, not to mention helping against those Spanish armies while your kicking the crap out of Sicily and co.
Also, how do you add personal quotes on the bottom of each post??
It's been a while since I updated this AAR - but I have now played the game up to 1711. So I'll do a quick summary...
These were the original objectives/ constraints:
Grand Objective: re-unite Muslim world under Mameluk rule. This includes not only the Sunni and Shiite countries as at 1492, but all the provinces that were once part of the Arab-Islamic empire, that by 850 stretched from the Atlantic to the Indus.
Constraints: (1) Mameluks will only form alliances with Sunni and Shiite countries. There will be NO alliances with any Christian countries, and (2) religous tolerance sliders will always be max for Sunni and Shiite, and always minimum possible for any Christian religions.
From 1492-1592 there were a series of Mameluk-Turk wars, with minor Sunni states often allied with Turkey. In some of these wars we had assistance from our Persian allies. The minor Sunni states (Morocco, Algiers, Hafsids, Hedjaz, Aden, Oman) were gradually annexed into the Mameluk empire, while in Mameluk-Turk peace resolutions provinces flowed to and fro. By 1592 the net position was Turkey +1 province, Mameluks -1 province.
For the next 100 years there were a range of strategic options:
* expand vs Turkey with a series of wars, taking 1-2 provinces at each peace resolution.
* expand vs Turkey with a major war, attempting to annex (in IGC config I set Turkey to a minor)
* hold position on the Marm-Turk border, and DoW our Persian brothers. Objective would be to annex Persia in 2nd or 3rd Marm-Persian war.
* start recovery of Christian provinces, eg Sicily, sothern Spain
In the next post I'll let you know what option I took. I didn't take so many notes for the AAR, so the next few posts will have less detail.
These were the original objectives/ constraints:
Grand Objective: re-unite Muslim world under Mameluk rule. This includes not only the Sunni and Shiite countries as at 1492, but all the provinces that were once part of the Arab-Islamic empire, that by 850 stretched from the Atlantic to the Indus.
Constraints: (1) Mameluks will only form alliances with Sunni and Shiite countries. There will be NO alliances with any Christian countries, and (2) religous tolerance sliders will always be max for Sunni and Shiite, and always minimum possible for any Christian religions.
From 1492-1592 there were a series of Mameluk-Turk wars, with minor Sunni states often allied with Turkey. In some of these wars we had assistance from our Persian allies. The minor Sunni states (Morocco, Algiers, Hafsids, Hedjaz, Aden, Oman) were gradually annexed into the Mameluk empire, while in Mameluk-Turk peace resolutions provinces flowed to and fro. By 1592 the net position was Turkey +1 province, Mameluks -1 province.
For the next 100 years there were a range of strategic options:
* expand vs Turkey with a series of wars, taking 1-2 provinces at each peace resolution.
* expand vs Turkey with a major war, attempting to annex (in IGC config I set Turkey to a minor)
* hold position on the Marm-Turk border, and DoW our Persian brothers. Objective would be to annex Persia in 2nd or 3rd Marm-Persian war.
* start recovery of Christian provinces, eg Sicily, sothern Spain
In the next post I'll let you know what option I took. I didn't take so many notes for the AAR, so the next few posts will have less detail.
Hmm... guess I spoke too soon... still there vandem? It'd be a shame to see another good AAR abandoned like this...
Yes, it would be a big shame to see you quit this vandem. It is a nice read and a cool AAR, keep it up please
this one isn't finished yet. I have notes of gameplay up to 1711, and the save game is still there for me to carry on with.
I haven't yet had a go at retaking ex-Muslim Spanish provinces, but I think this will be fun. Furious battles and heathen blood spilled. The only problem will be getting Mameluk troops across the straits of Gibraltar. We will need a navy. And we have ingored naval tech for 219 game years.
I haven't yet had a go at retaking ex-Muslim Spanish provinces, but I think this will be fun. Furious battles and heathen blood spilled. The only problem will be getting Mameluk troops across the straits of Gibraltar. We will need a navy. And we have ingored naval tech for 219 game years.