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The Mamelukes were Sunni in real life. But this tends to make them too powerful, so they were given turkish culture, which is also pretty realistic. I see them get Turkish provinces too often and would prefer a different culture (Canarian?).
 

Chris8b

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Mamelukes

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
The Mamelukes were Sunni in real life. But this tends to make them too powerful, so they were given turkish culture, which is also pretty realistic. I see them get Turkish provinces too often and would prefer a different culture (Canarian?).

I think I agree. Since EEP 1.1a, I have noticed the Mamelukes much more aggressive in taking Turkish provinces.

It's been a consistent problem across versions that the Ottomon AI does not do a good job in taking out the Mamelukes, usually because it gets bogged downed in Balkan wars. I think I'm going to experiment a bit and see if I can come up with some way to not only weaken the Mamelukes, but encourage the Ottomons to be more aggressive in conquering them.

-C
 

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Let us know how it works out. My efforts at staging the Ottoman CB shields haven't worked out too well so far (so they don't have all those Euro CBS when they should be going after the Mamelukes). I need to run more tests though.

edit: How about Berber?
 

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I love playing the ottoman's. But, when I play other places I always have a soft spot for the ottoman's and hope they do well. So I have been finding it annoying that they do not take down the Mamelukes. I regularly see the Mamelukes beating on Aden and the Hejdaz and taking provinces or annexing. Rarely do I see the ottoman's smash the Mamelukes. I was thinking that an event could force a war, once Selim leads the country. I don't know how to script yet, though I do like to read them. However, I think it would be possible to give the Ottoman's a choice, Something like this.

not at war and mam exists.

A) war with mam gain 10k cav

B) relation increase and land investment.

Put this event in twice. once for Selim and again for suleiman. It ussually take two wars to take down the mamelukes anyway and it would force the ottoman's to go after them.

Why wouldn't this work?
 

unmerged(5386)

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Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Are you sure??? The Fatimads were the start of the Shia sect, and they ruled Egypt. Granted, that was prior to the Mamelukes.

Saladin restored sunni faith and forbided shia faith when he overthrwed the Fatimids in 1170.
Egypt never again was shia.
The EU Mameluks were made shia for play balance only.
 

unmerged(5664)

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Won't this cause them to go after Algeria instead, which is also ahistoric? Not that the Mameluks don't anyways...

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BarristerBoy
 

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Originally posted by renaud vibien
I think it's possible to give no state culture.
Yes, it is. The Pirates, Mercenaries, etc. have no culture.
 

unmerged(5664)

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Originally posted by renaud vibien
I think it's possible to give no state culture.

Someone needs to test this out though - what happens when a country with no culture colonizes? Converts a pagan province?

I like the idea of giving them no culture, but I'm cautious that it might introduce some bugs to the game. Pirates, rebels and mercenaries don't ever own any provinces, after all.

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Since we're talking about Mamelukes, here're some events to help them fall. Haven't tested these yet, so anyone can copy/paste, and add them Event IDs are not taken in EEP, so they shouldn't interfere.

Code:
#Anarchy#
event = {
	id = 24033
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Anarchy"
	desc = "After the death of al-Muayyad Shaykh, al-Muzaffar Ahmad, a child of three years old, ascended the throne under the regency of al-Zahir Tatar. A few month later, he was deposed by his regent, and the sultanate entered a state of political anarchy and economical collapse. Commercial concessions granted to foreign traders (mostly Venetians) were revoked, and their stay in the sultanate was limited."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1421 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1422 }


	action_a ={
		name = "Let the beys run the show"
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = 2 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -4 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 4 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -30 }
	}
	action_b ={	
		name = "Curtail their power"
		command = { type = stability value = -8 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 8 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 30 }
	}
}

#Rule of Sultan Barsbay#
event = {
	id = 24034
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Cyprus Expedition"
	trigger = { exists = CYP
		atwar = no
		NOT = { alliance = { country = CYP country = MAM }  }
}
	desc = "In 1426-27 sultan Barsbay launched a major offensive against Cyprus. The reason behind the campaign was twofold: to cut off the threat to Egyptian navigation from the French, and to enforce the monopoly on spice trade. The island was taken and its king, Jean de Lusignan, became vassal of the sultan. This success allowed Barsbay to gain an upper hand (albeit temporarily) in his dealings with Venetian traders."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1423 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1433 }


	action_a ={
		name = "Impose control over Cyprus"
		command = { type = war which = CYP }
		command = { type = stability  value = 5 }
		command = { type = galleys which = -1 value = 10 }
		command = { type = cav which = -3 value = 10000 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = CYP value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -50 }
	}
	action_b ={	
		name = "Why bother?"
		command = { type = relation which = CYP value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 30 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 24035 }
	}
}

#Rule of Sultan Barsbay#
event = {
	id = 24035
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Pepper Monopoly"
	trigger = { exists = VEN 
		event = 24034 }
	desc = "Spices, and pepper in particular, from the Orient were carried by Arab merchants and unloaded at Jiddah, which the Mameluks had control of. From here it was shipped to Egypt, and offered for sale to the Venetians, who dominated the spice trade from Egypt by this time. There were no other alternative spice routes to Europe, as Cyprus was controlled by the Mamelukes. In 1426 sultan Barsbay decided to make pepper a royal monopoly by increasing the price of pepper, and then again in 1428 and 1430. The Venetians had a choice of paying up, or giving up the centerpiece of their trade. They paid. The Sultan's demands went up and up in the 1430s, and his successor continued the extortion." 
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1423 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1442 }


	action_a ={
		name = "Institute royal monopoly"
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = 4 }
		command = { type = treasury  value = 200 }
		command = { type = trade value = -250 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -50 }
	}
	action_b ={	
		name = "Conduct fair trade"
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 50 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 24036 }
	}
}

#Rule of Sultan Barsbay#
event = {
	id = 24036
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "Pepper Monopoly"
	trigger = { exists = MAM 
		event = 24035 }
	desc = "Spices, and pepper in particular, from the Orient were carried by Arab merchants and unloaded at Jiddah, which the Mameluks had control of. From here it was shipped to Egypt, and offered for sale to the Venetians, who dominated the spice trade from Egypt by this time. There were no other alternative spice routes to Europe, as Cyprus was controlled by the Mamelukes. In 1426 sultan Barsbay decided to make pepper a royal monopoly by increasing the price of pepper, and then again in 1428 and 1430. The Venetians had a choice of paying up, or giving up the centerpiece of their trade. They paid. The Sultan's demands went up and up in the 1430s, and his successor continued the extortion." 
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1423 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1442 }


	action_a ={
		name = "Pay up"
		command = { type = treasury  value = -100 }
		command = { type = inflation value = 2 }
		command = { type = trade value = 700 }
	}

	action_b ={	
		name = "Refuse to pay"
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = 1 }
		command = { type = trade value = -300 }
		command = { type = inflation value = -2 }
	}
}

#Succession of Sultan Barsbay#
event = {
	id = 24037
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Plague and Syrian Revolt"
	desc = "In 1438 sultan Barsbay was campaigning with his troops in Syria, when an epidemic of plague struck and left him and thousands of his soldiers dead. Barsbay's son Yusuf al-Aziz succeeded him under the regency of of his former atabeq Cakmak, but was deposed a mere few days later. Unhappy beys had revolted and were finally subdued in 1439."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 6 month = june year = 1438 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Drats"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -4 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 4 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
	}
}

#Policies of Sultan Barsbay#
event = {
	id = 24038
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Policies of Sultan Barsbay"
	desc = "During the rule of the sultan Barsbay, the administration of the Sultanate was cleared of the Jews and Christians; many goods belonging to Europeans were confiscated in Egypt and Syria, high customs duties were imposed on merchants, the circulation of the Christian currencies was prohibited."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = april year = 1422 }
	offset = 3200
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1438 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Replace the administration"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative  value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 1 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Leave the old administration"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative  value = 1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}

#Peaceful reign of Sultan Cakmak#
event = {
	id = 24039
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Pacification"
	desc = "After conducting unsuccessful military campaigns against the Knights of Rhodes, sultan Cakmak signed a peace with them in 1444. For the rest of his reign, al-Zahir Cakmak was pursuing a policy of peace inside and tried to maintain good diplomatic relations with the Timurides, Ottomans and the princes of Asia Minor."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = april year = 1442 }
	offset = 1000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1453 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Conduct peaceful policy"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR  value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = TIM  value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = DUL  value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = KAR  value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAN  value = 30 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Conduct aggressive policy"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy  value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = KNI value = 100 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = TUR value = 100 }
	}
}

#Succession of Sultan Cakmak#
event = {
	id = 24040
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Succession of sultan Caqmaq"
	desc = "After the death of sultan Caqmaq, grand amirs and the caliph chose his 19 years old son Uthman to succeed him. However, he immediately had to face a revolt of Mamelukes, and was deposed by his atabeg al-Ashraf Inal, who managed to gather sufficient support to be recognized sultan. He at once appointed Mamelukes loyal to him to all essential positions of the State and the army."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 13 month = february year = 1453 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = march year = 1453 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Let the beys fight"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = stability value = -4 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 4 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Try to control them"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy  value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -6 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 6 }
	}
}

#Plague of 1460#
event = {
	id = 24041
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Plague of 1460"
	desc = "In 1460 a plague devastated Egypt."
 	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1460 }
	offset = 120
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1461 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Drats"
		command = { type = population which = 746 value = -2000 }
		command = { type = population which = 744 value = -2000 }
		command = { type = population which = 745 value = -1000 }
		command = { type = population which = 747 value = -1000 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = 744 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = 746 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 744 value = -1 }
	}
}

#Succession of Sultan Inal#
event = {
	id = 24042
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Succession of sultan Inal"
	desc = "After the death of sultan Inal, his elder son, Ahmad al-Muayyad, ascended the throne but only for a few months and was soon deposed by his atabeg, Khushkadam. However, he soon realizes that the governors of Damask and Djedda, that helped to bring him to the helm, are frightening rivals."  
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1461 }
	offset = 60
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = august year = 1461 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Let the beys fight"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = stability value = -4 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 4 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Try to control them"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy  value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -6 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 6 }
	}
}

#Arab uprisings#
event = {
	id = 24043
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Arab uprisings"
	desc = "From 1462 through 1466 Bedouins and arabic tribes in Syria and Northern Arabia revolted and terrorized the population in these provinces. Sultan Khushqadam had to send multiple expeditions against them, but still couldn't subdue them by the end of his reign."
 	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1462 }
	offset = 180
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1466 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Drats"
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 48 value = 4 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -1 }
	}
}

#Succession of Sultan Khushkadam#
event = {
	id = 24044
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Succession of sultan Khushkadam"
	desc = "Sultan Khushkadam has died without naming the successor, and his atabeg al-Zahir Yalbay became a sultan. However, he was quickly deposed by his own atabeg al-Zahir Timurbugha, who, in turn, after the reign of less than a year, is overthrown by his own atabeg, Qa'itbay. Qa'itbay, unlike his predecessors, treats former sultans with honor. His lengthy reign, mostly peaceful, will be followed by increasingly unstable 20 years which will bring the downfall of the oldest Islamic dynasty."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 9 month = october year = 1467 }
	offset = 20
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1469 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Let the beys fight"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 3 }
	}
}

#Policies of sultan Qa'itbay#
event = {
	id = 24045
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Policies of sultan Qa'itbay"
	desc = "During his exceptionally long reign, sultan Qa'itbay resumed the trade policy by granting new privileges to Italian merchants, and exercising a stricter control over governors. He also undertook a massive construction program in both Cairo and in Medina. Unfortunately, the coffers of the State were empty by then and the country was struck heavily and impoverished by natural disasters."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1476 }
	offset = 1200
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = august year = 1490 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Try to improve the economy"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = [ type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
		command = { type = infra value = 600 }
		command = { type = trade value = 500 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Try to improve the army"
		command = { type = domestic which = land value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy  value = 1 }
		command = { type = land value = 600 }
		command = { type = inf which = -1 value = 6000 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = -1 value = 48 }
		command = { type = relation which = -3 value = -80 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
	}
}

#Sultan Cem#
event = {
	id = 24046
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Sultan Cem asks for asylum"
	desc = "In 1481 brother of Ottoman sultan Bayezid II Cem revolted, but was quickly defeated and had to flee. Mamelukes offered him asylum, partially because Qa'itbay was concerned with the growing might of the Ottomans and their meddlings in the affairs of smaller states in Asia Minor."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1476 }
	offset = 1200
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = august year = 1490 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Give him asylum"
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Send him back to Bayezid"
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
	}
}

#Plague of 1492#
event = {
	id = 24047
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Plague of 1492"
	desc = "On campaign against the Ottomans, Mameluke army suffered a devastating blow, as plague decimated their ranks, and they had to sue for peace."
 	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1492 }
	offset = 120
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1493 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Drats"
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = -5000 }
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = -5000 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -1 }
	}
}

#Plague of 1494#
event = {
	id = 24048
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Famine of 1494"
	desc = "In 1494 a severe famine completely devastated the lands of Egypt."
 	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1494 }
	offset = 120
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Drats"
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = -4000 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -2000 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -2 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -2 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability  value = -2 }
	}
}

#Succession of Sultan Qa'itbay#
event = {
	id = 24049
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Succession of sultan Qa'itbay"
	desc = "After the death of Qa'itbay, a 5 year long struggle for power between various clans ensued. al-Nasir Muhammad, who succeeded Qa'itbay, is quickly deposed by Khamsumia. He, in turn, is assassinated at the instigation of Qansuh less than a year later. In the middle of this struggle, plague strikes the country again in 1498, the year Qansuh seized the power thanks to the support of the Bedouins and the clan of the former sultan Qa'itbay. But in 1499 Qansuh is faced with yet another uprising by rival Mamelukes, who force him to abandon the throne and flee Cairo. Finally, in the time period of 1499-1501 al-Ashraf Djanbulat is brought to the throne with the support of emir Tumanbay, then replaced by Tumanbay himself, but not for long. Tumanbay is proclaimed sultan in Damascus, then assassinated after a few months of reign. al-Ashraf Qansuh al-Ghawri is proclaimed sultan following the revolt of emirs in Cairo."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 7 month = july year = 1496 }
	offset = 20

	action_a ={
		name = "Let the beys fight"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = stability value = -4 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 3 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
	}
}

#Rule of Sultan al-Ghawri#
event = {
	id = 24050
	random = no
	country = MAM
	name = "Rule of Sultan al-Ghawri"
	desc = "The reign of sultan al-Ghawri was characterized by continuous attempts to impose his authority over the emirs of Syria and other clans of Mamelukes.  The decline of the Egyptian economy continued, under the repeated blows of the epidemics of plague. The freedom of trade is again granted to foreign traders in Egypt to stop the decline of the economy of the sultanate. Finally, in 1511, against the will of the Mamelukes, al-Ghawri creates a unit of artillery in its army and a foundry of guns."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 7 month = july year = 1496 }
	offset = 20

	action_a ={
		name = "Conduct the reforms"
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 90 value = 2 }
		command = { type = trade value = 300 }
		command = { type = infra value = 300 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = -2000 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -2 value = -1 }
	}
}
 

unmerged(5664)

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The events look good. The only thing I'd be afraid of is that they'd weaken the Mameluks too much and that some other power might step into that void. But testing is obviously what's needed.

Just a minor suggestion - the plage of 1492 event. In order to better have it match the event description why don't you greatly widen the start and end dates, and make it triggered on a war between the Ottomans and the Mameluks?

alberta.gif
BarristerBoy
 

Araanor

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Originally posted by BarristerBoy
Won't this cause them to go after Algeria instead, which is also ahistoric? Not that the Mameluks don't anyways...

alberta.gif
BarristerBoy

Unlikely. They'll have to go through Tunisia first, and that'll take two wars at minimum. But, I haven't been testing much myself so I'll quietly slink away now.
 
Feb 27, 2001
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Originally posted by BarristerBoy
The events look good. The only thing I'd be afraid of is that they'd weaken the Mameluks too much and that some other power might step into that void. But testing is obviously what's needed.

Just a minor suggestion - the plage of 1492 event. In order to better have it match the event description why don't you greatly widen the start and end dates, and make it triggered on a war between the Ottomans and the Mameluks?

alberta.gif
BarristerBoy

Mamelukes historically were weak because of the power struggles and they were given a final blow by plagues and famines right before the war with Ottomans in 1516, they managed to hold their own in 1486-1494 war if not for the plague. I thought that making it dependent on the war between Mamelukes and Ottomans but I'm afraid it is a little bit of wishful thinking ;).
 

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Maybe give the mameluks "mameluk" culture only, there are no provinces with this culture, but it would solve the (possible) colonize/convert pagan problem...

or maybe make "mameluk" culture in Egypt, alexandria the provinces around there. then some event could change that culture to "arabic" or "turcish" or whatever.