AI won't ever do it because it spends its points stupidly. I've gone "ahead of years" as Nomad, and finished at tech 31 with two full military idea groups while still nomad...but then I don't spam re-roll generals, use harsh treatment willy-nilly, or spam out military buildings everywhere and then get rolled, giving them to someone else.
Mali westernizes too fast
- Thread starter delpiero1234
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AI won't ever do it because it spends its points stupidly. I've gone "ahead of years" as Nomad, and finished at tech 31 with two full military idea groups while still nomad...but then I don't spam re-roll generals, use harsh treatment willy-nilly, or spam out military buildings everywhere and then get rolled, giving them to someone else.
The tech disparities do need to be toned down, especially for Indian and Chinese techs. As if 150% and 160% wasn't enough, they had to reduce monthly power by 1. I'd say make Indian and Chinese tech similar to Muslim tech, with similar pips for their units.
what's funnier is that the Indian tech group (or at least Hindu's there) get decisions to reduce tech costs. Add in Innovation and you're flying past the Muslim tech group.
In my Vijay game, no colonizing, I was tied with Castile and Portugal at military tech 15 when I met them. Yeah, they had an idea each that I didn't have, but otherwise on the core tech, I was similar.
For the OP's point -- yes westernization in Mali is happening way too fast, even for the AI.
Personally, I'd like to see a minimum admin tech 10 requirement for it. Mali still might be first (due to how the AI and players tend to colonize) but at least it won't be at the beginning of the game. -- though, get rid of the silliness of 2 idea groups required for the nomads to westernize. Or force everyone to have the same ones.
Natives get to 'reform' and get a big tech jump, not to mention a lot of unit types. They really should add more for the tech groups (including nomads) that have big gaps in them. The unit types for the natives has always been there, even before the DLC.
2ndarily, double the westernization time. It should take a long time and not be a 'must do it early' thing. either bump up the monarch points needed, or cut down the monarch points taken per month (or both). Not everything should 'stop' while westernizing, so I definitely prefer the lower MP/month soaking so that you can still spend points on buildings/etc.
oh, and ofc get rid of the monarch points lost per month garbage for lower tech groups. Increase building monarch point costs, increase the tech costs, etc etc. You shouldn't need to westernize to enjoy a game as a lower tech group nation. Ofc, you should expect to WC without westernizing either (or standing up to europe).
In my Vijay game, no colonizing, I was tied with Castile and Portugal at military tech 15 when I met them. Yeah, they had an idea each that I didn't have, but otherwise on the core tech, I was similar.
For the OP's point -- yes westernization in Mali is happening way too fast, even for the AI.
Personally, I'd like to see a minimum admin tech 10 requirement for it. Mali still might be first (due to how the AI and players tend to colonize) but at least it won't be at the beginning of the game. -- though, get rid of the silliness of 2 idea groups required for the nomads to westernize. Or force everyone to have the same ones.
Natives get to 'reform' and get a big tech jump, not to mention a lot of unit types. They really should add more for the tech groups (including nomads) that have big gaps in them. The unit types for the natives has always been there, even before the DLC.
2ndarily, double the westernization time. It should take a long time and not be a 'must do it early' thing. either bump up the monarch points needed, or cut down the monarch points taken per month (or both). Not everything should 'stop' while westernizing, so I definitely prefer the lower MP/month soaking so that you can still spend points on buildings/etc.
oh, and ofc get rid of the monarch points lost per month garbage for lower tech groups. Increase building monarch point costs, increase the tech costs, etc etc. You shouldn't need to westernize to enjoy a game as a lower tech group nation. Ofc, you should expect to WC without westernizing either (or standing up to europe).
Well it's just silly that Mali westernized so early. An African country should not westernize as fast as a Muslim country because they are clearly more behind in tech then the Muslims are.
Put a colony down in India. watch the ways of the west spread like wildfire. all but the hordes will be western in a year. its okay, even if they catch up in tech they stink. I can't quite explain it, maybe a lack of ideas. But my Britain still auto stackwiped vijayanagar at equal western tech, they had like 2 morale... I had 10.
imo sub-Saharan African countries should never be able to westernize. Which is why I will be making a mod which disables westernization for African tech countries. Why do you think Europeans could draw up African borders with a pen and paper? The African nations were so backwards in comparison to the European powers, you can't deny it - open a history book if your deluded enough to think the Africans had a chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Italo–Ethiopian_War
if it occurred in our history then it sure can happen in alternate history
The game is about making your OWN history. So what if Mali westernizes and becomes a world power by the 1800s? It leads to more interesting games, plus if you're playing as an African country, it gives it potential.
Even when the AI westernizes, they still lose battles, even if they're at the same tech as me. I'm assuming they lack multiple idea sets completed.
Again, thanks Paradox for your awesome updates, now everyone and his dog is westernizing.
That would be why the British... lost... the first Anglo-Ashanti war, in the 1820's. Turns out history says the Ashanti could defeat European powers, even as late as the beginning of the Victoria period.
There's always holy war, and revolutionary war, and straight up conquest.
I was planing to put some colonie in asia and put some protectora and 10 years later half of asia was westernise.
Honestly, in my ideal world Westernization would be removed entirely (though with many more triggered modifiers like Western Arms Trade), but the unit imbalance would also be corrected: if a Sub-Saharan nation somehow gets to Land Tech 30, let them have good units! But keep the flavor and not just seem like more European units!
Well, I also think there should be some version of "neighbor bonus" for everyone - if the Iroquois are bordering Britain, they may not suddenly become Western, but they will tech up a lot faster even (especially?) if they're not friends.
Kind of agree about Mali becoming westernized so quick. Small protectorates (OPM, 2 or 3PM all right) but mali isn't such a little nation right? Once they get Portugal or Castille as neighbors, boom Mali becomes a westernized nation.
Maybe it's some bias I have from playing Vic, where westernized/modernized is more important, but I just don't get this easy way for these countries that never got on par in tech with the encroaching euros - who BTW never really controlled huge expanses of african land, which is a whole other issue - suddenly being able to get on par with tech so fast and so early. TBH the westernizing methods from eu3 made more sense as far as stretching out the process over several layers instead of a one ticket way to become mighty
Maybe it's some bias I have from playing Vic, where westernized/modernized is more important, but I just don't get this easy way for these countries that never got on par in tech with the encroaching euros - who BTW never really controlled huge expanses of african land, which is a whole other issue - suddenly being able to get on par with tech so fast and so early. TBH the westernizing methods from eu3 made more sense as far as stretching out the process over several layers instead of a one ticket way to become mighty
Indian and Chinese have better units than Muslim until after tech 20, so no. Just remove the MP cost at least
.Mali virtually never becomes competitive as an AI. Why are people so bothered by a little hat symbol next to their name? Their land isn't very good, they're still 10+ techs behind, and they're getting chewed on by colonial powers and will be forever. Right now in-game progress against them is ahistorically fast (though more so due to the basic difficulty of disease and holding anything serious in inland Africa)...and people want to nerf them
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