Great, Space Tumblr is rebelling again. Someone get me my phaser.
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Male and female second names?
- Thread starter abaddondespoiler
- Start date
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That was quite the overreaction. Are you compensating for something? Did a SJW make you cry and now you're on a vengeful crusader to purge anything that you imagine looks like social justice?
My objection was based on intellectual integrity. People who play strategy games should think first and act second, therefore a priori assumptions are sullying the whole field. That's not so much Martha Nussbaum as it is Immanuel Kant. If you have a problem with basic Kantian philosophy, then I have to say this is probably the wrong community for you in the long run. It tends to be fairly intellectual. Narrowmindedness is bad intellectual practice, because you need to perform your analysis based on what is there and not what you want to be theme.
Despite you wanting my argument to be some social justice tirade you can satirise, it wasn't and it was evidently clear that it wasn't. You just swung at a big empty space and we were all wondering why you bothered. Good job.
edit: this whole thread is about WHETHER it can be modded in. If it isn't supported, then it is very unlikely that it will be added by mods.
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In the one name set we have, the characters don't even HAVE family names. Why should they add it (if its not there)? Because it is unlikely to introduce new problems as the code to differentiate female and male names is already in the game. All they would need to do ís make the game recognise the tag on "second names".
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If someone interested in why am i doing this:
I'm making russian namelist. It includes names, surnames, regnal names, fleetnames, planetary names and so on. I'm making it on Russian and English language, for example:
En:
Vladimir Vladislav Vlasiy Vsevolod Vyacheslav Yakov Yaroslav Yuliy Yulian Yuriy Zakhar Zinoviy
Agafya Agata Aglaya Agnessa Aklina Aksinya Albina Aleksandra Alisa Aliya Alla Alyona Anastasiya Anfisa Anna Anzhela Anzhelina Appolinariya
Ru:
Владимир Владислав Василий Всеволод Вячеслав Яков Ярослав Юлий Юлиан Юрий Захар Зиновий
Агафья Агата Аглая Агнесса Акина Аксинья Альбина Александра Алиса Алия Алла Алёна Анастасия Анфиса Анна Анфиса Анжелина Апполинария
The same for the surnames:
En
Abashin Abashkin Abayantsev Abdula
Abashina Abashkina Abayantseva Abdulova
Ru
Абашин Абашкин Абаянцев Абдула
Абашина Абашкина Абаянцева Абдулова
And so on, for every aspect of the game. Because only of this I'm asking all the questions, 'cause such a trifle, as the inseparable genderly surnames, is ruining all the idea
I'm making russian namelist. It includes names, surnames, regnal names, fleetnames, planetary names and so on. I'm making it on Russian and English language, for example:
En:
Vladimir Vladislav Vlasiy Vsevolod Vyacheslav Yakov Yaroslav Yuliy Yulian Yuriy Zakhar Zinoviy
Agafya Agata Aglaya Agnessa Aklina Aksinya Albina Aleksandra Alisa Aliya Alla Alyona Anastasiya Anfisa Anna Anzhela Anzhelina Appolinariya
Ru:
Владимир Владислав Василий Всеволод Вячеслав Яков Ярослав Юлий Юлиан Юрий Захар Зиновий
Агафья Агата Аглая Агнесса Акина Аксинья Альбина Александра Алиса Алия Алла Алёна Анастасия Анфиса Анна Анфиса Анжелина Апполинария
The same for the surnames:
En
Abashin Abashkin Abayantsev Abdula
Abashina Abashkina Abayantseva Abdulova
Ru
Абашин Абашкин Абаянцев Абдула
Абашина Абашкина Абаянцева Абдулова
And so on, for every aspect of the game. Because only of this I'm asking all the questions, 'cause such a trifle, as the inseparable genderly surnames, is ruining all the idea
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Because in my language nearly EVERYTHING changes by gender, declension, time, count, case, etc
You really go out of your way to wordguzzle me when I already admitted in the third post that I was going a bit overboard.
Fourth post was supposed to be a humorous reference to a cartoon and was in line with the post I replied to.
If you like having a stick so far up your bum, you can't even bend your neck, this community may the wrong one for you in the long run.
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Sadly enough, that is not assured. I cannot draw the conclusion that the game will recognize "second_name_male" and "second_name_female" from the code posted above (please correct me if I am wrong). And if Paradox did not include it into the scripting language, it cannot be modded. That is the problem with mods - we cannot add things that are not already supported by the game.
I cannot say for the OP, but I would like to have that coding opportunity. The name lists are indeed for the modders to create, but modders are not magicians who can add anything to the game with time and effort, and I don't see any indication that there is a possibility to do it, so I am concerned.
There is a ton of obvious things missing in EUIV and CKII scripting languages, the "they should have thought about it" argument doesn't work.
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From the code above it seems to be possible to make name tags with only male or female firstnames. You could make two name tags, one with only male first names and the other only with female first names. Not sure if this would work for species with two different portraits for male and female characters. Depends what the game does if there is only one gender in the choosen name tag.
E.g
Code:
names1 = {
weight = 40
first_names_male = {
blahblah
}
second_names = {
blahblah
}
regnal_first_names_male = {
blahblah
}
regnal_second_names = {
blahblah
}
}
names2 = {
weight = 20
first_names_female = {
blabblah
}
second_names = {
blabblah
}
regnal_first_names_female = {
blabblah
}
regnal_second_names = {
blabblah
}
}
Gendered second names would certainly come in hand for my Roman Empire in Space name list. A (gendered) third name slot would be great, too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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Your mistake is assuming every culture follows the same naming conventions as yours. That's quite... myopic.
For example, Islandic uses Patronyms, which differ between genders (as in Thorsson/Thorsdottir). Also, to my knowledge, many Slavic languages have different suffixes to Surnames depending on gender, e.g. -ov/-ova
Tl;dr: Not every country is the USA, not every language is english.
Just to let you know, the vast majority of cultures that have historically used Patronyms, or any other gendered surnames, rarely do so today. Why do you think there are so many "sons" at the end of a bunch of English surnames? Anderson, Johnson, Erikson, etc. But most cultures ditched it because it was cumbersome and made for lots of naming issues.
The vast majority of people on this planet use family names that are gender neutral. This has nothing to do with thinking "every country is in the USA and speaks English". Gendered surnames are the exception, not the rule. Slavics and Icelandic people are pretty much the only ones left who still do it, along with a few other small outliers like Greece and parts of Malaysia.
No reason to insult people and be all passive-aggressive when someone makes a rather harmless assumption. When 6.5+ billion people all share a similar naming pattern, it is an easy assumption to make.
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I am perfectly aware of that, but thank you anyway for trying to make it clear.
I agree that using Patronyms as replacement for surnames causes confusing naming issues and therefore only works in very small communities, e.g. Iceland. The practice of using patronyms additionally to family names, as for example in Russian, is neither cumbersome, nor is it in any danger of falling into disuse. Neither, for that case, is the use of gendered surnames, if simply for the reason that suffixing an "a" to a male surname is no unreasonable effort for preserving a little cultural identity.
It was not my intent to insult anyone, but if reasonable criticism is insulting, well, hard luck. The assumption that "this feature is unnecessary because I don't know enough about other cultures to see that it might seem necessary for others" is myopic and self-centered.
It is also exactly the kind of complacency and desinterest which is engendered by cultural hegemonies like the USA, so I don't consider my little jibe unfounded. Even if it may have been a bit spiteful.
More to the point, the possibility of making custom name lists exists in the name of player convenience and enhanced moddability. In that light, more options for diversity should always be considered a good thing, don't you think?
EDIT: I can think of quite a number of scenarios in which this feature could make a name list much more immersive. Think, for example of a Norse-themed list (maybe a Fylkirate-megacampaign...), a russian empire in Space. Maybe an alien race that uses patronyms despite their obvious (to us humans, at least) drawbacks...
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Yes, "wordguzzle". It's called having and using a vocabulary. Education is not a failing.
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Thank you for your thinkadding.
You might still want that stick checked out.
Edit: Allow me to expand upon it: I don't care about your perceived requirements to have a place in these forums.
I don't know if you're basing it on some stuck up elitism or argument to seniority. First of all I've been plenty more active than you on these forums and second of all that's irrelevant, because the only person's whose right to be here, that you have any valid cause to make proclamations about, is your own.
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Posts in the OT aren't tracked in the message count. You base your assumptions on what you can see. This seems in line with your populistic outlooks.
Your inability to track my second point that none of us are in any special position to judge if someone else belongs here seems to have escaped your highly esteemed and intellectual self.
You mistake inability with lack of interest: not dignifying your statement with a full response.
Of course. The idea that you don't have a special place to rightfully point out those who don't belong here is ludicrous.
I have much to learn from you. So, other than not being intellectual enough and disagreeing with your political views (I assume that's what the "populist" comment was about?), what else might disqualify a user from belonging here?
Guys, this is a thread about gendered last names, is it really worth getting into such a bother about?
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