Malbork/Marienburg fort Teutonic Order

[Kaminki]

I have a question or rather a suggestion.
I play eu4 since houndreds of hours now. And I have always been bothered that Malbork the Capital of the Teutonic Order starts as a Level 1 fort only due to being the capital city with no fort built.
In fact Malbork castle was one of the biggest castles of the world, and as far as i know has never been captured in combat.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbork_Castle

Therefore it should be a level 3 fort right from the beginning (Level 2 fort + 1 Level Capital bonus). If not it is vastly ahistorical. If it's due to balance or maintanance costs, then either Osterode or Tuchel forts should be removed.
Actually this should have happened in the Poland patch.

I have been told to open this Thread here, since I initially posted it in the wrong subforum.
Here ist the original thread + discussion:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/malbork-teutonic-order.1122094/

 

[neondt]

TO already has a very high fort density. In the current setup I wouldn't add another fort. But perhaps if/when the region gets a map update it would be worth considering representing the historical fortifications better.

 

[Kaminki]

Since a map rework is unlikely (it would have been done during Poland patch or Prussia DLC) I would suggest to move the Tuchel fort to Malbork.

 

[neondt]

Since a map rework is unlikely (it would have been done during Poland patch or Prussia DLC) I would suggest to move the Tuchel fort to Malbork.

The Baltic coast actually wasn't in scope for the map changes in 1.27. There's still time, but no promises.

 

[Kaminki]

I have come to the conclusion, that moving the Tuchola fort to Malbork is necessary due to the fact, that Tuchola falls to Danzig during the new event added in the latest patch.
During this event the TO is in an offensive war against Danzig and Poland/Lithuania/etc. By 1450. In this situation the TO has a very hard time against these overwhelmingly higher troop numbers. Loosing one fort and not having the historical strengh of Malbork isn't very benefitial for the TO neither, and results in a war that is lost before it started. (Yes in the real conflict the TO lost, but at least the war lastet 13 years, which right now ingame is decided after one battle)

 

[Metz]

The Baltic coast actually wasn't in scope for the map changes in 1.27. There's still time, but no promises.

What does time mean? Is there a time limit for still updating the game? Implying that EU4 will keep receiving updates until X date and then it's time to develop EU5?

 

[Pepperoner]

What does time mean? Is there a time limit for still updating the game? Implying that EU4 will keep receiving updates until X date and then it's time to develop EU5?

They will do smth with it when Baltic region will have their own DLC or immersion pack. On the one hand i understand that they are making product and they have estimates, future plans on region improvements and so on, but on the other hand in one DLC they boost Moscovy, in another Poland and some countries like Teutonic Order, Novgorod, Sweden, Hordes are whipping boys if we are talking about SP. As i can see now AI Orders is a meal for neighbors they cant even expand at all. In conclusion: "If he dies, he dies"

 

[AirikrStrife]

Agree, I were in Marlbork last year, the castle is very impressing and should have a lvl 2 castle.

 

[GundamMerc]

I'm sorry, but I don't see where the Devs get off saying it "wasn't in the scope of the update" when the update has an event that basically either forces the country to split in half or declare an offensive war on Danzig/Poland. The Teutonic Order was CLEARLY inside the scope of the update. There may be other reasons for why it was not worked on, but don't state something so disengenuous as that.

 

[AirikrStrife]

I haven't tried Poland or TO in the new patch, because I hope for new achievments before I do a new run in the area, but from what it sounds like online and what I've seen in my other games, TO is laid waste to by Poland every time, it can impossibly defend itself. This I find somewhat problematic, as the TO managed to keep the war going for 13 years, without serious foreign assistance, granted the reason poland performed so badly in the war were because of it's inefficient recuitment system and that Lithuania rrefused to join the war (apart from minor skirmishes).

I think TO needs some sort of boost, moving fortress from Tuchel to Marienburg is first step in the right direction.

Later on To should also have an event or mission based chain that allows them to get the livonian order as a march. For example if they manage to conquer samogitia area.

 

[RagingMonkey]

I'm sorry, but I don't see where the Devs get off saying it "wasn't in the scope of the update" when the update has an event that basically either forces the country to split in half or declare an offensive war on Danzig/Poland. The Teutonic Order was CLEARLY inside the scope of the update. There may be other reasons for why it was not worked on, but don't state something so disengenuous as that.

I'm pretty sure @neondt meant in the scope of map changes. Baltic coast would probably change with a northern germany/scandinavia rework.

The Baltic coast actually wasn't in scope for the map changes in 1.27.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

I have come to the conclusion, that moving the Tuchola fort to Malbork is necessary due to the fact, that Tuchola falls to Danzig during the new event added in the latest patch.

Id just like to interject that this is entirely avoidable including all hostilities with Poland with the right steps which are incentivised anyway of releasing Danzig as a Vassal, using them to push trade power and keep total fieldable troops up, getting alliances and squeezing yourself into the HRE on 140-150 relationship points with Austria, a lot of plate spinning for security in the first few tentative years but completely cheeses it to play as a large HRE member off the bat and do the usual things like eat Pomerania & get bullied by Denmark rather than struggle to survive as a jumpboard for the Baltic Crusader achievement.

Respective of this status if it is a unintentional bug or the world's (subjectively) easiest workaround, Danzig should probably recieve a forced gurantee of independence (respective of DLC's) or 70/50% liberty spike as a alternative option if under the Teutons control as of the time of the event. I cheesed the burghers too with a plan to just feed Danzig my burgher land but that proved unnesecary since they gave me so much trade power anyway the penalties of completely bunking mechant class for everything they had down to 0% made the safety net i built give me the room & space of not having Poland breathing down my neck unless i decided to DOW them to eventually overcome that estate crisis.

More forts would be a expensive slog to fight and higher density & maintenance than most european countries on average per state (though Tueton Taxes are pretty good with estate bonuses & pope point rewards) and i wouldn't really want to trade away any of my castles already in defensive terrain for pre-emptive forced A/D engagements irregardless of who arrived first attacks the Teutons have the luxuryof. When really i can build my economy up and do it myself later.

 

[GundamMerc]

You don't even have to release them as a vassal, you can just curtail the prussian confederacy immediately and nip it in the bud with the current changes. However, your average player going in blind isn't going to realize that this is an event chain that is railroaded upon one of only a few paths, and will think that they can play Teutonic Order as they used to be played.

 

[Yevardian]

I'm sorry, but I don't see where the Devs get off saying it "wasn't in the scope of the update" when the update has an event that basically either forces the country to split in half or declare an offensive war on Danzig/Poland. The Teutonic Order was CLEARLY inside the scope of the update. There may be other reasons for why it was not worked on, but don't state something so disengenuous as that.

Aggression aside, thats a fair point. The AI/player can always delete excess forts later.