Making use of Korea as Japan

[Nirmara]

1. I know someone who tested this in India.

The UI might be miss leading since there is no indication that colonies RGO are less productive. I'll make my own tests when I have some time to spare.

2. Japan should have enough score to be able to get enough raw materials for its factories from the world market.

Not if there is a shortage as it is often the case in the late game.

3. If your uncivilized and already having crises as Japan, you're doing something wrong. Early westernized Japan can stand its own against Russia because of the piece- meal way the AI deploys its armies.

As long as you are not a GP, you can loose the territory without a fight. I will concede that it generally don't take long but it is still a possibility. Also, conquering Korea as an unciv combined with the westernization modifier and the events related to it can increase militancy are more than enough to create tension and possibly a crisis.

4. Korea is a better bet than taking China, Indochina, or Indonesia. Those are worse ways to use infamy than taking Korea.

China produce a lots of tea, silk, iron, coal and have a high population.

Indochina produce rubber.

Indonesia produce oil and rubber.

5. Not if you have high level naval bases. If not, then you might need to waste 5 infamy taking a single state from an unciv.

Depending on your luck and how quickly you westernize, you might not have that many naval doctrine tech. Constructing naval bases also take a very long time so getting high level naval bases might not be an option. We agree about the unciv conquest approch.

7. This betrays your ignorance. Cores only give a -20% malus to assimilation. The Ultimate Mod has something that gives +60% to assimilation. Pops start assimilating even if they're the primary culture of a nation with cores there. You can go test it out.

There is no way to get +20,1% assimilation ingame. Saying it was impossible in vanilla is therefore correct.

 

[austrianemporer]

The UI might be miss leading since there is no indication that colonies RGO are less productive. I'll make my own tests when I have some time to spare.



Not if there is a shortage as it is often the case in the late game.



As long as you are not a GP, you can loose the territory without a fight. I will concede that it generally don't take long but it is still a possibility. Also, conquering Korea as an unciv combined with the westernization modifier and the events related to it can increase militancy are more than enough to create tension and possibly a crisis.



China produce a lots of tea, silk, iron, coal and have a high population.

Indochina produce rubber.

Indonesia produce oil and rubber.



Depending on your luck and how quickly you westernize, you might not have that many naval doctrine tech. Constructing naval bases also take a very long time so getting high level naval bases might not be an option. We agree about the unciv conquest approch.



There is no way to get +20,1% assimilation ingame. Saying it was impossible in vanilla is therefore correct.

1. Okay, I'll compromise on this one.
2. Great Powers don't experience shortages even in late- game except in rubber, oil, and the such.
3. You can lose it to a crisis but you could lose anything to a crisis so that is not really an argument. And your only an unciv for so little time that the crisis timer probably will not trigger a crisis.
4. Korea produces a lot of iron, coal, has a high population, is connected to the mainland,and gives a great jumping board into China.
5. Agreed. Yay!
6. You never said "in vanilla" so I tried disproving that and succeeded. Understandings now cleared up, yes it will not happen in vanilla.

 

[Shatterfury]

I`m with my German brother in denial here.
Korea is a good target for Vanilla Viky 2.
My strategy as Japan would be to stay uncivilised as Japan until all of Korea and maybe Taiwan are taken, when you hit civilise button Korea becomes normal states thus you can take full advantage of their resources.

It would make little sense to keep Korea as a colony, it would be better to make it a sphered protectorate. At least it can westernise and make use of better tech, you will not have crisis and they will field their own armies that help with the defence of Korea.

In my opinion there are only two options, Korea with normal states integrated in Japan of sphered protectorate. Colonial Korea is the least desirable.

In PDM things are a bit different, there is a nice decision for Japan that let`s you annex a civilised Korea who`s a protectorate. That means that Japan has a lot more infamy to spare for things like getting it`s hands on Dai Nam or north Borneo become the France and UK start taking colonies or sphering stuff.
Philippines is also fair game as colonial land.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

I won't get into a min-maxing argument, but in my games I have always taken Korea as uncivilized Japan. Combined with Manchuria (which you can acquire later as civilized Japan or at the same time as uncivilized Japan), you will no longer have any coal and iron production problems.

 

[austrianemporer]

I`m with my German brother in denial here.
Korea is a good target for Vanilla Viky 2.
My strategy as Japan would be to stay uncivilised as Japan until all of Korea and maybe Taiwan are taken, when you hit civilise button Korea becomes normal states thus you can take full advantage of their resources.

It would make little sense to keep Korea as a colony, it would be better to make it a sphered protectorate. At least it can westernise and make use of better tech, you will not have crisis and they will field their own armies that help with the defence of Korea.

In my opinion there are only two options, Korea with normal states integrated in Japan of sphered protectorate. Colonial Korea is the least desirable.

In PDM things are a bit different, there is a nice decision for Japan that let`s you annex a civilised Korea who`s a protectorate. That means that Japan has a lot more infamy to spare for things like getting it`s hands on Dai Nam or north Borneo become the France and UK start taking colonies or sphering stuff.
Philippines is also fair game as colonial land.

I am not actually German, I just like pretending to be a Habsburg royal .

But thanks.

 

[Shatterfury]

I am not actually German, I just like pretending to be a Habsburg royal .

But thanks.

I`m not German either, just teasing you over the whole German/Austrian debate.

Anyway, the moral is that Korea is very desirable to be had as states, or, as alternative as a vassal.

 

[Nirmara]

We all agree that conquering Korea is a must for Japan!

As for getting it as a colony or as a state, it doesn't really matter in the end since Japan is one of the easiest nation to play as.

I'd still recommend conquering it after you westernized if it's one of your first game in order to avoid troubles later-on.

 

[austrianemporer]

I`m not German either, just teasing you over the whole German/Austrian debate.

Anyway, the moral is that Korea is very desirable to be had as states, or, as alternative as a vassal.

Nowadays, the majority of Austrians identify themselves as "Austrian", not German... so no more unification.

We all agree that conquering Korea is a must for Japan!

As for getting it as a colony or as a state, it doesn't really matter in the end since Japan is one of the easiest nation to play as.

I'd still recommend conquering it after you westernized if it's one of your first game in order to avoid troubles later-on.

Japan is the easiest unciv to play as. Basically, just conquer Korea, China, Indonesia, and Indochina. Then, you should conquer America because immigration is too OP.

 

[Shatterfury]

Nowadays, the majority of Austrians identify themselves as "Austrian", not German... so no more unification.

We were talking about nationality vs ethnicity, but this is off topic anyway.

@Nirmara
At the very least Japan must get the northern state who has coal before it westernises. The modifiers that states get are huge not to mention that you can kick start industrialisation ASAP if you have states rather than colonies.

 

[Owl Raider]

We all agree that conquering Korea is a must for Japan!

As for getting it as a colony or as a state, it doesn't really matter in the end since Japan is one of the easiest nation to play as.

I'd still recommend conquering it after you westernized if it's one of your first game in order to avoid troubles later-on.

This is incredibly bad advise, if only because conquering Korea as an unciv gives you a ton of Westernization progress which makes your already fast Westernization as Japan even faster. Take Early Meiji Restoration and conquer Korea and in 1840 or so you're already Westernized. Since you want to be conquering something early on as Japan to speed up Westernization, going after Korea for up to 22 infamy makes a lot more sense than picking off states from China, Siam or Dai Nam and significantly more sense than spending the same 22 infamy on Johore/Atjeh. Those targets are much better sought after post Westernization due to the cheaper infamy, less population and worst early-mid game RGOs(rubber and oil only come into play mid-late game) that makes industrializing in those territories significantly worst than industrializing in Korea.