Making use of Korea as Japan

[KillingMeSoftly]

Playing Heart of Darkness, no mods.

This is my first time playing as Japan-- I've played a few games of Vicky2 and I think I've got the hang of most of it pretty well. However I was fairly surprised that conquering Korea made it into a colony instead of a state. Is that normal? I suppose it's because there's no land connection? But then again if GB takes land in Europe, is it a colony?

Anyway.

Another question from me is that it seems the only way to turn a colony into a state would be to somehow encourage enough Japanese bureaucrats within Korea itself, but this seems like it would take a life time if its even possible? Any advice, tips or tricks would be appreciated. I feel like I may be going about things wrong.

Also, if its not possible to turn Korea into a state, would it be feasible to encourage Artisans since I wouldn't be able to construct any factories? My ruling party right now is the Imperialist faction.

Thanks.

 

[ThatStrategyGuy]

If you conquer Korea while still uncivilised then all the Korean territory should be turned into states. It probably is possible to abuse the mechanics to get enough immigrants to Korea, but I'm not sure and it probably wouldn't be worth it.

I'd just build any factories you need/want in your home states, You can increase the efficiency of factories and subsidise them if you need be but your artisans will start starving quite quickly.

 

[Jorlaan]

Even as a colony Korea will provide a good amount of coal and iron which you desperately need. Not being able to build factories in Korea is not as bad as I thought originally. I always used to make sure I conquered it as an unciv so it would become a state when I westernized, but now I don't really care either way. If no factories are in Korea, then the resources will simply benefit factories in Japan instead.

 

[dmartin1982]

Even as a colony Korea will provide a good amount of coal and iron which you desperately need. Not being able to build factories in Korea is not as bad as I thought originally. I always used to make sure I conquered it as an unciv so it would become a state when I westernized, but now I don't really care either way. If no factories are in Korea, then the resources will simply benefit factories in Japan instead.

Is there any advantage to conquering Korea versus simply sphereing it?

 

[austrianemporer]

Is there any advantage to conquering Korea versus simply sphereing it?

Yes.

You get to directly administer the province. You get the profits from selling goods.

 

[dmartin1982]

Yes.

You get to directly administer the province. You get the profits from selling goods.

Thanks! I thought there was, I just couldn't remember. This is my first game back in Vicky 2 since A House Divided, and my memory is pretty rusty on how some things work.

 

[austrianemporer]

Thanks! I thought there was, I just couldn't remember. This is my first game back in Vicky 2 since A House Divided, and my memory is pretty rusty on how some things work.

No problem.

 

[mattkunz]

Yes.

You get to directly administer the province. You get the profits from selling goods.

In my opinion more importantly, your industrial techs are applied to those rgos, which especially for mines makes a huge difference in how much is produced.

 

[Thrake]

In my opinion more importantly, your industrial techs are applied to those rgos, which especially for mines makes a huge difference in how much is produced.

And you get to build railroads all over to the max. Korea is OPed; high population with really good RGO while tiny so relatively easy to conquer for anyone.

 

[Nirmara]

Korea is better as a colony in 3.04 than as a regular states. The Japanese population is already high enough to support a large industry and making it a state will generate revolts and possibly a crisis.

Korea also produce grain. It might seem silly but there can easily be a shortage of grain if the AI start producing liquor like crazy or if a world war erupt.

 

[austrianemporer]

Korea is better as a colony in 3.04 than as a regular states. The Japanese population is already high enough to support a large industry and making it a state will generate revolts and possibly a crisis.

Korea also produce grain. It might seem silly but there can easily be a shortage of grain if the AI start producing liquor like crazy or if a world war erupt.

A.
Colonies experience the same revolts as states.
B.
Colonies can also have crisises trigger.

 

[Jorlaan]

A.
Colonies experience the same revolts as states.
B.
Colonies can also have crisises trigger.

A is mostly true, it really depends on the pops living there and colonies tend to be harder to sway politically. In general I find that colonies tend to be more stable though, when I put down a local colony revolt it seems to lower local militancy more than putting down a state revolt.

B is totally true though, crisis can erupt from states or colonies.

 

[austrianemporer]

A is mostly true, it really depends on the pops living there and colonies tend to be harder to sway politically. In general I find that colonies tend to be more stable though, when I put down a local colony revolt it seems to lower local militancy more than putting down a state revolt.

B is totally true though, crisis can erupt from states or colonies.

Fine, Mr. Super Specific Man.

Captain Obvious disapproves .

 

[ThatStrategyGuy]

Also if you make Korea into states then you have more colonial points for colonies elsewhere.

 

[Nirmara]

A.
Colonies experience the same revolts as states.

A few tech affect militancy and consciousness for non-colonial increasing the chances of unaccepted pop forming a movement or starting a revolt. There is also the fact that craftsman and clerk, tend to be more militant (smaller biais toward conservatism) making movement in state stronger than in a colony.

Consciousness also increase pop needs making theses needs more likely to be unfulfilled and generating a a lots of militancy.

B.

Colonies can also have crisises trigger.

Weaker movement or lower chances of revolt make it less likely to get a crisis in a colonial state. This include non-nationalist revolt since they also increase tension.

 

[austrianemporer]

A few tech affect militancy and consciousness for non-colonial increasing the chances of unaccepted pop forming a movement or starting a revolt. There is also the fact that craftsman and clerk, tend to be more militant (smaller biais toward conservatism) making movement in state stronger than in a colony.

Consciousness also increase pop needs making theses needs more likely to be unfulfilled and generating a a lots of militancy.

B.


Weaker movement or lower chances of revolt make it less likely to get a crisis in a colonial state. This include non-nationalist revolt since they also increase tension.

That is a tiny difference. You claimed that "making it a state will generate revolts and possibly a crisis.". Revolts and crises still happen in colonies. If you don't make a state, you lose massive amounts of RGO production, no assimilation, no industrialization, and less colonial points.

 

[Nirmara]

That is a tiny difference. You claimed that "making it a state will generate revolts and possibly a crisis.". Revolts and crises still happen in colonies.

I'm not saying they can't happen. I'm saying they are less likely. Conquering Korea before you westernize as Japan have a high probability of causing a crisis due to the westernization events increasing militancy and the patch 3.04 changes to crisis. As for conquering Korea after you westernized, there are way more efficient way to spend 22 infamy. Turning Korea from a colony into a state is still a possibility but the lack of assimilation and the high population density make this quite hard to achieve.

If you don't make a state, you lose massive amounts of RGO production, no assimilation, no industrialization, and less colonial points.

In vanilla, RGO production is not affected if the state is a colony.

Pop will not assimilate in provinces having a core of a nation accepting their culture (like Koreans in Korea).

As for the loss of industries, in the case of Japan, what it lack the most is raw materials, not population.

Concerning the loss of available colonial points, there isn't much to colonize in Asia and you won't have any problems as long as you don't try to colonize Africa.

Not turning Korea into a state mainly have two negatives impacts :

1) You will never get cores in Korea causing a loss of administrative efficiency. Considering the requirements of having a majority of the population being primary or accepted culture (very hard to get in Korea) or having a core province bordering a non-core province (also hard to get since Japan is an island), getting cores on Korea is quite hard.

2) You will have less brigades (colonies need 12000 soldier to train a brigade). Considering the fact Japan do not really need more soldiers in general and that Chinese states provide a sizable army if needed, this is not really an issue.

 

[austrianemporer]

I'm not saying they can't happen. I'm saying they are less likely. Conquering Korea before you westernize as Japan have a high probability of causing a crisis due to the westernization events increasing militancy and the patch 3.04 changes to crisis. As for conquering Korea after you westernized, there are way more efficient way to spend 22 infamy. Turning Korea from a colony into a state is still a possibility but the lack of assimilation and the high population density make this quite hard to achieve.



In vanilla, RGO production is not affected if the state is a colony.

Pop will not assimilate in provinces having a core of a nation accepting their culture (like Koreans in Korea).

As for the loss of industries, in the case of Japan, what it lack the most is raw materials, not population.

Concerning the loss of available colonial points, there isn't much to colonize in Asia and you won't have any problems as long as you don't try to colonize Africa.

Not turning Korea into a state mainly have two negatives impacts :

1) You will never get cores in Korea causing a loss of administrative efficiency. Considering the requirements of having a majority of the population being primary or accepted culture (very hard to get in Korea) or having a core province bordering a non-core province (also hard to get since Japan is an island), getting cores on Korea is quite hard.

2) You will have less brigades (colonies need 12000 soldier to train a brigade). Considering the fact Japan do not really need more soldiers in general and that Chinese states provide a sizable army if needed, this is not really an issue.

RGO production is impacted.

More industry is always better.

Crisis will happen anyways even with 3.04 because Japan will be a great power so Korea will not automatically be lost.

What else do you use your infamy for? Taking Sakhalin from Russian and Washington from America?

There are some areas with great resources to colonize such as Borneo. Also, Japan should try getting African colonies.

Japan has a lot of pop meaning that you can turn Korea into a state because of large Japanese immigration to Korea.

Negative impacts, I agree.

Pops may assimilate even with cores, it just doesn't happen in vanilla which doesn't mean it doesn't work.

A tiny bit less militancy and crises are no matter because of Japan's large military population.

 

[Nirmara]

RGO production is impacted.

I don't remember the specific patch that introduced this change.

More industry is always better.

Not if your factory can't produce due to a lack of raw materials

Crisis will happen anyways even with 3.04 because Japan will be a great power so Korea will not automatically be lost.

It can if you are still an uncivilized nation. Early westernized Japan will also have troubles facing Russia.

What else do you use your infamy for? Taking Sakhalin from Russian and Washington from America?

China, South-East Asia, Indonesia

There are some areas with great resources to colonize such as Borneo. Also, Japan should try getting African colonies.

I never said that there is nothing to colonize in Asia and I agree that colonizing parts of Africa can be useful but it would require conquering unciv nation around like Oman, Yemen, Ethiopia, etc.

Japan has a lot of pop meaning that you can turn Korea into a state because of large Japanese immigration to Korea.

I never said it was impossible, just that it's harder.

Pops may assimilate even with cores, it just doesn't happen in vanilla which doesn't mean it doesn't work.

They will never assimilate if there is a core of a nation accepting them. They will assimilate if there is no core of such nation.

 

[austrianemporer]

I don't remember the specific patch that introduced this change.



Not if your factory can't produce due to a lack of raw materials



It can if you are still an uncivilized nation. Early westernized Japan will also have troubles facing Russia.



China, South-East Asia, Indonesia



I never said that there is nothing to colonize in Asia and I agree that colonizing parts of Africa can be useful but it would require conquering unciv nation around like Oman, Yemen, Ethiopia, etc.



I never said it was impossible, just that it's harder.



They will never assimilate if there is a core of a nation accepting them. They will assimilate if there is no core of such nation.

1. I know someone who tested this in India.

2. Japan should have enough score to be able to get enough raw materials for its factories from the world market.

3. If your uncivilized and already having crises as Japan, you're doing something wrong. Early westernized Japan can stand its own against Russia because of the piece- meal way the AI deploys its armies.

4. Korea is a better bet than taking China, Indochina, or Indonesia. Those are worse ways to use infamy than taking Korea.

5. Not if you have high level naval bases. If not, then you might need to waste 5 infamy taking a single state from an unciv.

6. Its not hard at all! Anyways, if you want to take Indonesia and China, those areas are even harder to turn into states.

7. This betrays your ignorance. Cores only give a -20% malus to assimilation. The Ultimate Mod has something that gives +60% to assimilation. Pops start assimilating even if they're the primary culture of a nation with cores there. You can go test it out.