Making the Great Khan not an idiot

[NocturneOfSolace]

Just a suggestion for the next patch, but maybe program the Great Khan when he/she arrives to not be dumb enough to try and take on freaking fallen/awakened empire?

Or to also be able to gauge if an empire has sufficient power to repel the Khan and not throw away his/her life in a suicidal charge against unbeatable odds, just a thought, it really castrates the crisis if the Khan kills him or herself within the first few years of the Khan arriving

Legit, it's super embarrassing that this 'great leader's' tactical acumen boils down to 'throw my forces at the enemy and pray they aren't stronger than me.'

 

[Spacemadnesss]

Agreed. I ambushed the Khan once and destroyed her fleet, she then came back with the same fleet and let herself be immolated in the same system by the same guys. jackychan.jpg

I understand the horde AI can't just let stronger factions run roughshod over their burgeoning empire without fighting back but the Khan shouldn't sacrifice themselves so haphazardly. They also shouldn't engage empires that are equal or stronger than them if there are weaker targets. Wasn't it a hallmark of the mongol hordes to bypass strongholds and just take everything else, isolating strong points to be dealt with later/by auxiliaries in a sort of proto blitzkrieg?

Either way the horde is underwhelming, they burn out too fast and the Khanate successor state has never not been utter trash in my games. When they get turned into regular empires post-crisis fase they lose the ability to build fleets. The "The Khan died but they elected a successor" event should continue the crisis, with a lul in the fighting for $years as they consolidate, then return to expanding with full/increased force. As it stands, both the "successor" and "civil war" events result in nothing but "pathetic" trash for your empire to clean up.

 

[SpectralShade]

It's part of the lore that the Khan thinks he/she is invincible. Just read what he/she states in messages if you communicate with the khanate.

 

[Methone]

I agree with SpectralShade. The Khan is supposed to have a big opinion of themselves. I vote, instead, we make the Khan Successors not utter garbage. Currently they have 1 Flavor Civic and that's it. No second civic, nothing.

I vote we let them have a second civic, and give the Flavor Civic some powerful effect. Let them keep building Galleons and Habitats. Something. It makes no sense that the Khan Successor is weaker than the marauader clans they came from.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

It makes no sense that the Khan Successor is weaker than the marauader clans they came from.

You could argue that they've stretched themselves thin, I think.

They should be stronger, but just making sure they can match the empires around them would be fine IMO.

 

[Methone]

You could argue that they've stretched themselves thin, I think.

They should be stronger, but just making sure they can match the empires around them would be fine IMO.

Maybe, but I find it outlandish that they lose a bunch of their tech, even when they peacefully reform into a federation.

 

[KingAlamar]

I tend to agree that it's not FUN for the player to have the Khan suicide in year 2 of their awakening. Avoiding Leviathans, FE, AE, etc. should be a priority to keep things fun.

As for tech levels IF they do lose tech, APs, traditions, civics, etc. I think that needs to be stopped so that they are a more interesting empire. Perhaps treat them more like a 'late birthed "Advanced Start" empire'??

NOTE: By the time the Khan awakens pretty much all other [non-FE / AE] empires are trash. It's not surprising that they also become trash-class.

 

[Zoomun]

A problem with the Khan successors is that I don't even think they research anything. I sometimes check the victory screen and their tech score never increases.

 

[Secret Master]

Either way the horde is underwhelming, they burn out too fast

But isn't that the point? They should live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse.

The problem seems to be the corpse part, not the living fast and dying young. The successors stink.

 

[Acheron]

IMHO, he Khan should avoid both FE and Leviathans, the later even if they could be beaten, to let the players do it later on.

 

[Methone]

IMHO, he Khan should avoid both FE and Leviathans, the later even if they could be beaten, to let the players do it later on.

The Khan does do something like this. I watched in Observer mode once as the Khan accidentally ran into the Dimensional Horror. He bloodied it, but lost in the end. That system ended up being restricted - the Khan's fleets avoided the Dimensional Horror's system like the plague.

 

[KingAlamar]

IMHO, he Khan should avoid both FE and Leviathans, the later even if they could be beaten, to let the players do it later on.

That would certainly add to the fun factor. I'd like to strike a balance between fun & realism though. Somewhere between "leave them alone forever" and "break yourself while achieving only death" is likely a good point.

Basically give the player a shot at the goodies BEFORE the KHAN or at least give them "enough" time to stop the Khan before they snowball so they can steamroll leviathans, FEs, AEs, etc.

 

[KingAlamar]

The Khan does do something like this. I watched in Observer mode once as the Khan accidentally ran into the Dimensional Horror. He bloodied it, but lost in the end. That system ended up being restricted - the Khan's fleets avoided the Dimensional Horror's system like the plague.

I would contend they should avoid the system to start with. If that system was in a Nebula though then I'd be willing to forgive that as scanners may not give them enough warning that something unexpected is there.

 

[Methone]

I would contend they should avoid the system to start with. If that system was in a Nebula though then I'd be willing to forgive that as scanners may not give them enough warning that something unexpected is there.

The Khan did, in fact not know about the Horror ahead of time. Though I'd argue that the Khan shouldn't avoid it even if he knows ahead of time: "I'm the Great Khan! We can take it!"

 

[Paradoxon]

I agree with SpectralShade. The Khan is supposed to have a big opinion of themselves. I vote, instead, we make the Khan Successors not utter garbage. Currently they have 1 Flavor Civic and that's it. No second civic, nothing.

I vote we let them have a second civic, and give the Flavor Civic some powerful effect. Let them keep building Galleons and Habitats. Something. It makes no sense that the Khan Successor is weaker than the marauader clans they came from.

The biggest issue with Successor States is, in my opinion, demographics. Marauders species are sorta rubbish, with a very low 20% habitability, and they tend to purge xenos, so they often end up being small-ish empires of 3 or 4 planets with a similar number of pops on each of them, which is basically a death sentence in the mid-24th century.

Giving them a proper habitability trait, making them enslave rather than purge, and fixing the usual bordergore they suffer from would already be a great boost to their survivability.

 

[Methone]

The biggest issue with Successor States is, in my opinion, demographics. Marauders species are sorta rubbish, with a very low 20% habitability, and they tend to purge xenos, so they often end up being small-ish empires of 3 or 4 planets with a similar number of pops on each of them, which is basically a death sentence in the mid-24th century.

Giving them a proper habitability trait, making them enslave rather than purge, and fixing the usual bordergore they suffer from would already be a great boost to their survivability.

Wait, they don't have any habitability trait? I could've sworn they had a random planet class, and Extremely Adaptive. Though I guess if they spent all their time on habitats it'd make sense.

Also I notice that they do indeed use slavery, and only very rarely purge.

 

[Archon87]

Wait, they don't have any habitability trait? I could've sworn they had a random planet class, and Extremely Adaptive. Though I guess if they spent all their time on habitats it'd make sense.

Also I notice that they do indeed use slavery, and only very rarely purge.

Yeah, they have no habitability trait, but do have extremely adaptive. This translates to 20% habitability on everything, which is utter crap. It's like being life-seeded without the awesome homeworld. The fact that they also have four negative traits and no positive traits other than extremely adaptive means that their pops suck at pretty much everything.

 

[tribnia]

Maybe the marauders deserve a special habitability trait named "Marauders".
Or give them the ability to build habitats, as someone has said above.

 

[Methone]

The fact that they also have four negative traits and no positive traits other than extremely adaptive means that their pops suck at pretty much everything.

What? Is that new? I seem to remember them having Extremely Adaptive, Nomadic, Rapid Breeders, Quarrelsome, Deviants. Or did that change in 2.2?

 

[Archon87]

What? Is that new? I seem to remember them having Extremely Adaptive, Nomadic, Rapid Breeders, Quarrelsome, Deviants. Or did that change in 2.2?

No, you're probably right. I was misremembering.