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unmerged(466619)

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Just some thoughts for making the game more realistic (and, hopefully, fun!). I thought I’d put them here to see what the forummers think, and also in case any Paradox staff members read this…

1.) Maybe have base tax, manpower and supply limits change based on the population of the province. Since we’d generally expect the population to increase over time, the income and army size of nations would also tend to increase (e.g., England wouldn’t be able to maintain 90k troops in 1500, but by 1750 its income and manpower would have increased enough for it to easily support such a force.) Although it might be good if the population can temporarily decline if it gets invaded and occupied a lot, and maybe if some random events occur (plagues, famines, exceptionally cold winters, etc. …).

2.) Make it more difficult to support large armies overseas without them getting destroyed by attrition. In the early 1500s, England had great difficulty maintaining one army in northern France, so it’s a bit… immersion-breaking to play EU3 as a Mediterranean country and suddenly find 20k English soldiers bearing down on you. The ability to support overseas armies could increase with advances in naval tech, so by the end of the game you’d be able to plonk relatively large forces on the other side of the world if you want. (Although not too large, hopefully: armies fighting in the colonies tended to be rather smaller than armies in the metropolis, and this ought to be reflected in the game, IMHO.)

3.) Possibly tweak the AI so it doesn’t grab random overseas provinces which it won’t be able to defend easily (Morocco taking Aberdeen, for example). Also maybe code the computer so that, ceteris paribus, it will try and minimise its border length: province ratio (no more snakes!). This would be good from a realism perspective (long borders are harder to defend, so it makes sense to try and avoid them) and also improve gameplay greatly (not so many ugly borders! Yay!).

4.) Allow countries to take provinces in wars even if they’re not occupied. If I manage to conquer all of mainland France, I should be able to demand colonies in return for moving out of their mainland territory, even if I haven’t physically sent an army to occupy those colonies.

5.) Fewer yet bigger rebellions. E.g., the rise of a pretender often led to a major civil war; having 5k troops rise in some random colony seems a bit bathetic by comparison. Maybe when a rebellion starts, several provinces and armies could immediately defect to them, giving them more of a power base. If the rebels beat you in battle, you could see more provinces defecting to them, whereas if you manage to turn the tide, provinces could start defecting back. Rebels’ demands should also vary depending on how well they’re doing: so, say, a rebellion of heretics might start by demanding religious toleration a few provinces, then if they do well demand toleration throughout your empire, and if they do really well demand that you convert to their religion. (This could also work in reverse: if you starting beating them, their demands will start getting more moderate.)

6.) Make changing government type more dependent on what’s happing in your nation generally. E.g., if the head of a republic tries to crown himself king, the usual result would be instability and massive rebellions; if, OTOH, he’s just led the country to victory in a glorious war, he could ride the wave of popular enthusiasm to crown himself with much less fuss. Or again, if your absolute monarchy gets defeated in a war or goes bankrupt, people might start demanding that you give them more of a say in government, and become a constitutional monarchy (as happened in France and Britain).

7.) Have a proper family tree and little portraits for each family member, like in Total War. One of the things I thought Total War did well was make it seem like your royal family was actually made up of different people, whereas IMHO the royal family mechanics in EU are a bit impersonal. (Also, it’s kinda weird that when an heir dies the new one starts out at age 0. What, do none of the monarchs ever have more than one child at a time? :p )
 

DanubianCossak

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Not sure how 1.) would work in some cases (where you had small provinces with not too many people, that yielded more money than some bigger provinces). Generally speaking its OK.

Everything from 2.) to 6.) im OK with as well.

7.) is however not gonna happen any time soon. The biggest issue your request is the portraits part, that alone would require many, many, many pictures to be generated, and it would complicate modding as well. The rest of it, sure why not, family tree would be fun.
 

MrQwerty

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2. I agree that countries such as England and Castille should not be able to support large armies overseas, but I think they should not send large armies at all. Maybe make transport ships far more expensive, or encourage/force both the human and the AI to keep an army back. Right now, the AI will send all of its troops towards the theater of war, as many as it can. This needs to be discouraged.

4. Cores can be taken without occupation, as long as the war score is high enough. I think this is okay, especially if not, then we may see even more random provinces taken, simply because they were demanded!

5. We'll see better diplomatic options with rebels, but I agree that noble and pretender rebels should be more of a threat. Maybe they will be?

6. Apparently, a human player cannot easily change into a republic from a monarchy. It can only happen through a revolution.

7. I think the point of Europa Universalis is moving away from the feudalism of CK2, where a detailed family tree and character system is necessary. Still, as we know, even monarchs, as all rulers, have needed to keep a part of his court and general population happy in his legislature, or there will indeed be rebellions. However, in EU3, these rivalries and threats arn't very serious to a large or medium power. Perhaps there should be greater internal trouble, as in CK2?

Overall, you've brought up some good points, especially some that have been brought up several times before. Just remember, for one, that the AI cannot think like a human, but only emulate thought through several algorithms. A computer works with quantities and numbers, not feelings and emotions. Plus, the dev team have to balance several different ideas both in the game and as a company. Also, the game's system may simply be limited in interactions and mechanics, so maybe only so many can be represented at a time. Don't be upset if some these ideas, as great as they sound, cannot be implemented ;) .
 

DanubianCossak

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With over 100/200 pictures portraits of kings stoled from wikipedia images you can do this very simply... :D

I dont think you realize how big the world is, and how impossible it would be to find portraits of rulers of some non European places, for example Americas, Ethiopia or parts of Asia. Its just crazy amount of work.
 

Baneslave

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2. I agree that countries such as England and Castille should not be able to support large armies overseas, but I think they should not send large armies at all. Maybe make transport ships far more expensive, or encourage/force both the human and the AI to keep an army back. Right now, the AI will send all of its troops towards the theater of war, as many as it can. This needs to be discouraged.

I think that this is wrong way to fix the problem.

I would prefer system like this:
- The maintenance unit costs depends on supply limit of province.
- The maintenence is increased if unit is overseas, in enemy province, in jungles, in mountains etc

This would make using large armies overseas really expensive, as it should be.
 

DanubianCossak

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It is appaling that people forget about Crusades when they scream and moan about England and France invading Turkey or Egypt by sea.

That did happen, deal with it. The only factor holding such conquests off should be relativly low gain, and fairly large strengt of Ottomans and Mamluks.

Crusades are one thing, and they are modeled and encouraged by an entire game mechanic. Ottomans grabbing random parts of England, Ireland, Baltic or Scandinavia, in early 1400s makes no sense. They didnt have navy to transport 10s of thousands of units across those distances, and even if they did, as soon as they would conquer a part of western Europe like that, every single Catholic country would attack them to restore the land. Sorry but seeing large stretches of Sunni provinces in England is just simply game breaking for me, so i wont deal with it. AI cannot hold on to land like that, although it tries, so theres no point in doing this in the first place. For every random land grab Ottomans (or anyone else) do, they score infamy, and they have to send some units to maintain those distant provinces, which makes them even less capable of expanding where they should - and thats Anatolia, Middle East and Europe. I have seen many times cases where Mamlukes or Ottomans would get as many as 10 provinces spread all over western Europe, then they would get attacked by Castille or some naval power, who then lands on those separated provinces, occupies them, and makes MAM/TUR WE max within couple of years. Decade or 2 later those countries would inevitably fall apart, completely. That just sucks.
 

unmerged(15337)

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It is appaling that people forget about Crusades when they scream and moan about England and France invading Turkey or Egypt by sea.

That did happen, deal with it. The only factor holding such conquests off should be relatively low gain, and fairly large strength of Ottomans and Mamluks.

Add to that list the fear of leaving the homeland weakly defended. England and France had more pressing concerns at home and against each other.
 

Hydro Globus

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Hmm... Maybe troop and ship movement should be slower? That way, bringing 25k out of, say, France, to beat Poland would be a death sentence, Burgundy and England would see that the troops aren't back for a year, so they would partition France.

Opinions?
 

unmerged(237533)

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When I saw the title 'Making EU4 more realistic and fun' I so hoped this would be followed by somthing crazy. You know a demand for albania to be the powerhouse it so clearly deserves to be, maybe an extension of the starting date to 2000 BC, or just a total war battle mode. I had so many cutting remarks prepared. I had a smile prepared: this one :huh:. But no. You had to be sane. Thanks for nothing.
 

Ashantai

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I like the idea of making overseas campaigns scale cost with naval advancement. It was always silly to find England in Italy or Egypt in the 15th century. Make transports expensive and make it cost to maintain units in enemy territory overseas.
 

unmerged(466619)

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I think the point of Europa Universalis is moving away from the feudalism of CK2, where a detailed family tree and character system is necessary.

Well, there were some important events in EU4's timeframe which depended on family trees: the Wars of the Roses, the unification of Great Britain, the War of the Spanish Succession, the War of the Austrian Succession...

Perhaps there should be greater internal trouble, as in CK2?

Maybe there should be some sort of faction system, a bit like there already is with Ming, although preferably less restrictive. So say you have an Aristocratic and a Mercantile faction in your country: if the Aristocrats are in the ascendant, you'll have cheaper land units and higher land forcelimits, but merchants and colonists could cost more and have a lower chance of success; if the Merchants come to power, these modifiers would be reversed. They could also affect the missions you get, so that an Aristocratic parliament will tell you to conquer your neighbours and improve your fortifications, whereas a country dominated by Merchants will be given missions to do with colonising and building up a strong navy. For added flavour, the effects of each faction could vary in strength depending on your government type: so a highly centralised absolute monarchy wouldn't really be affected by which faction in power, whereas in a constitutional republic the factions could be a major factor in what you decide to do...
 

unmerged(466619)

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I dont think you realize how big the world is, and how impossible it would be to find portraits of rulers of some non European places, for example Americas, Ethiopia or parts of Asia. Its just crazy amount of work.

Well I don't think it would be necessary to have accurate and separate portraits for every individual monarch between 1444 and 17something (now that really would be crazy...). Twenty to thirty generic portraits for each culture group or group of culture groups (I'm sure the same set of portraits could be used for all the Western European nations, for example) would be fine, IMHO.
 

grommile

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(I'm sure the same set of portraits could be used for all the Western European nations, for example)
I want Habsburgs to have long chins. I don't want Plantagenets, Valois, or Wittelsbachs to do so.