Making 'decadent' an actually negative trait

[Hapchazzard]

Currently, the decadent trait is pretty much a free trait point, as it's effect is exceedingly minor - you just need to enslave a random POP, and you've solved your problem for the entire planet. Realistically, when will you not have at least a single POP you can and are willing to enslave? So, I have an idea how to make the effects of the trait actually noticeable:

Have all free decadent POPs get a flat -30% production output to food and minerals.

Notice I said free. This means that you could still continue to operate your mines and farms at full efficiency, but you'd absolutely need to use slaves for them, reserving free POPs for energy and research. This would make you actually have to rely a lot on slave labor, rather than just have to enslave a single random POP and be done with it. I also think that, thematically, it makes more sense than the current effect - why would the decadent elite of a hierarchial society want to degrade themselves to working in mines and on fields?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Seems out of proportion with the existing traits.

 

[Hapchazzard]

Seems out of proportion with the existing traits.

IMO it isn't really, because you can actually solve it(or at least it's symptoms) - just use slaves for your farms and mines, and no more output malus. This is unlike, say, fleeting, where you're stuck with short-lived leaders until you get gene-modding, with no simple way around the max age penalty, or deviant, where you'll always be battling ethics-divergence. Those traits don't have a simple button that would solve all the problems, unlike decadent.

 

[forfor]

Could the sector ai solve it though?

 

[The Founder]

Currently, the decadent trait is pretty much a free trait point, as it's effect is exceedingly minor - you just need to enslave a random POP, and you've solved your problem for the entire planet. Realistically, when will you not have at least a single POP you can and are willing to enslave? So, I have an idea how to make the effects of the trait actually noticeable:

Have all free decadent POPs get a flat -30% production output to food and minerals.

Notice I said free. This means that you could still continue to operate your mines and farms at full efficiency, but you'd absolutely need to use slaves for them, reserving free POPs for energy and research. This would make you actually have to rely a lot on slave labor, rather than just have to enslave a single random POP and be done with it. I also think that, thematically, it makes more sense than the current effect - why would the decadent elite of a hierarchial society want to degrade themselves to working in mines and on fields?

Like Deviants, decadent is one of those traits that might be more hindring for an enemy then yourself.

In PvP scenarios, another player open war with "Abolish Slavery" demand. And just end the war after he has enough Warscore to force it. Wich would wreck havok to your Eocnomy (tehre also is a "no Slavery" happiness penalty on Decadent Pops).

This is unlike, say, fleeting, where you're stuck with short-lived leaders until you get gene-modding, with no simple way around the max age penalty, or deviant, where you'll always be battling ethics-divergence. Those traits don't have a simple button that would solve all the problems, unlike decadent.

You actually want short lived leaders in Autocracies. And can get around it easily using Xeno Leaders.
And Deviants is a free pick if you go Fanatic Inidivudliast right now.

In the end, the way to make this more relevant is through the new Ethos/Faction System for 1.5. Slavery is propably being untied from the Ethos altogether.

 

[Incompetent]

Most of the negative traits can be worked around in practice, otherwise you'd never take them. 'Weak' is so mild that it doesn't even need to be worked around.

Maybe Decadent could be a bit less about slavery and represent a more general moral depravity, like how Repugnant species are physically abhorrent. Decadent leaders could then have some higher-level effects, such as opinion penalty (like Repugnant) or happiness penalties for non-Decadent pops when ruled by a Decadent leader/governor.

 

[Derp]

Most of the negative traits can be worked around in practice, otherwise you'd never take them. 'Weak' is so mild that it doesn't even need to be worked around.

Maybe Decadent could be a bit less about slavery and represent a more general moral depravity, like how Repugnant species are physically abhorrent. Decadent leaders could then have some higher-level effects, such as opinion penalty (like Repugnant) or happiness penalties for non-Decadent pops when ruled by a Decadent leader/governor.

Maybe a random negative trait for all decadent leaders?

 

[Mitroll]

I would only agree with the OP as long as the sectors are brought up to the task of making sure that the slaves and slavers are properly managed.

On a related note, sedentary is an easy choice for almost any faction, and deviants is straight up a free point for individualists. In fact, I consider deviants to be a bonus for my xenophobe/fanatic individualist faction, because it makes more of my xenophobes turn xenophile, and having xenophobe empire ethics with xenophile pops is practically a best of both worlds scenario.

 

[Rotkohl]

As someone whose main species is decadent, I...

...absolutely agree. Well, my main species doesn't work on farms or in mines anyways, using xeno slaves for that, so it wouldn't affect me much, but it is thematically appropriate.