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Tamwin5

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Currently, crime is very boring, and the crime lord deal is OP. That said, the system as it is currently is a good base, and with some simple expansions I would be quite happy with it. This suggestion inspired by discussion in this thread.

First, some light balance.
  • Enforces only reduce 20 crime (down from 25)
  • Every 10 crime gives -1 stability.
The enforcer tweak is designed so that it's more likely there will be some light crime on every planet. This can be combated by using the anti-crime campaign planetary decision, which raises the total crime reduction up to 30. On any normal planet, this will be enough to drop crime to 0. It also makes dealing with a criminal syndicate branch office harder, likely requiring more than just a single precinct house.
Currently, crime has no direct effects. Since the Crime lord deal disables all the negative crime events, it means that max crime with the crime lord deal has no downside. With crime giving a small stability malus, it means that the less crime there is, the less effective the crime lord deal is (due to it also giving 50 crime). Only when crime is naturally high does it start to become beneficial.

Besides events, the other negative aspect of crime is that you will get some pops working as criminals. A criminal gives a whopping -1 trade value. Oh no. How will your economy ever recover? This is boring and weak. Instead of just making the criminal job more painful though, I figured that some other types of criminal jobs could be added.

New Criminal jobs
  • Criminal: -5 Trade Value | These criminals live outside the bounds of legal society, some by choice and some by circumstances.
  • Trafficker: -10% pop growth. -5% happiness. | The kidnapping and sale of sapients, while rare, creates many horror stories and nightmarish tales.
  • Smuggler: -10% trade value. | Pilots, drivers, and middle men who move goods without tax or tariff.
  • Drug Dealer: -10% job output. +5% happiness. | Illegal and addictive, these drugs promise escape but only create chains of dependance.
  • Mobster: -10 Trade Value | Coordinated and efficient, organized crime lives up to it's name.
  • Don: -0.1 Trade value per pop. | Dons, and the Mob Bosses under them, coordinate the wide scale rackets, embezzlements, and money laundering schemes that engulf this entire planet.
These new jobs will be given, in various amounts, by the crime modifiers that spawn on a planet. If you want to know what the current ones are to compare, check the wiki.

New Modifier jobs

Criminal Underworld - This world is home to a large criminal underworld.
+15 Crime
+1 Criminal Job
+1 Criminal Job per 33 crime

Center of Drug Trade - The world has become a major center of drug trade. Illegal narcotics are being smuggled planetside on a daily basis, with a large segment of the populace being regular users.
+30 Crime
+1 Smuggler
+1 Drug Dealer per 33 crime

Gang Wars - The world is currently in the middle of a very destructive gang war between two or more organized crime factions. Heavy fighting is ongoing between the rivaling gangs, with local security forces trapped in the middle.
+30 Crime -5 Stability
+100 army starting expereince
+1 Trafficker
+1 Mobster per 33 crime

Criminal Hive (New) - The world has become a hive of scum and villainy, with ten thousand different petty gangs constantly in conflict. The constant chaos has prevented large organizations from forming or taking hold.
+30 Crime
+1 Drug Dealer
+1 Trafficker per 33 crime

Mob Rule - The world is currently dominated by a single criminal organization. They have infiltrated all layers of society, and little happens here without their involvement or permission.
+30 Crime
+1 Don
+1 Mobster per 33 crime

There are also some changes to a couple of the temporary modifiers that can pop up. Substance abuse now gives +1 Drug Dealer and -10% job production. Smuggler activity gives +1 Smuggler and -10% trade value.


Now currently, the crime lord deal prevents ANY events from firing. I'm changing this so that if crime reaches 30 with the crime lord deal, the Criminal Underworld fires anyway. If crime reaches 80 with the crime lord deal, it's replaced with Mob Rule. Have to be careful dealing with criminals, or things might get out of control...

One negative aspect of the fact these job changes drastically lowers trade value is that it hurts criminal syndicates. To remedy this, Criminal Syndicates would simply ignore the losses from various crime jobs when the calculate how much they make. This would require a bit of extra coding work, but is the easiest solution I think.

---

On a slightly separate note, there would also be special jobs added related to low stability and revolt. These would also occupy the criminal 'strata'. To take one of these jobs, pops would need to be part of an unhappy faction and unhappy themselves.

  • Dissident: -5 unity. -100% Governing Ethics Attraction. - Some speak openly on the streets and the net, others leave leaflets and spray-painted slogans. Their message is the same.
  • Terrorist: -10 unity. -5 stability. - Some have so little faith in the government, they would rather burn it to the ground then work within the system. The ends justify the means.
  • Saboteur: -20% job output. - Computer viruses, cut wires, jammed gears. There are a hundred ways to grind an assembly line to a halt, and a thousands angry workers willing to perform direct acts of rebellion.
---

When I have time later, I'll take a look at Gestalt Deviancy. I hope I can make them more interesting, as well as unique from each other.
 
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Pancakelord

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I feel like one area the game broadly overlooks is corruption of officials - if crime dramas have told me anything it's that criminals only prosper when the local authorities look the other way. I feel like there needs to be a corruption meter too, which would:
1) be a base value that crime is calculated off of and
2) allow crime to spread empire-wide down trade lanes or just jump between worlds in sectors and not be quite so planet-tied.

Also, I like your criminal jobs idea but perhaps the kind of jobs should go along with the planet specialisation too - e.g. more chance of white collar crime on a research world, a black market on an overpopulated world, a drugs operation on an agri world, a smuggling operation on a fringe world (one not in a sector, representing an illegal entry point to your empire) etc.

Imagine you have a burgeoning drug trade on a fringe agri-world, given time this will increase the "corruption level" in the star system - once high enough, the corruption of local officials "spreads" to the local star base (e.g. increases the cost and build time for ships built there by25% for "union reasons"). But if you still do nothing about this, once the corruption meter gets high enough, crime would then "spread" again, this time down the trade lane to another colonised system or star base, wreaking havoc on more of your empire.

If crime could jump like this to other planets in a sector, and have wide reaching effects like in my above example, people would also stop asking for a return to single massive sectors, too..

It'd also be a good way for criminal megacorps to get buffed (by letting crime spread and corrupt other areas) without outright overdoing crime on a planet level.
 

Zoomy

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I feel that instead of reducing the flat amount of crime reduction, enforcers should instead reduce crime by a percentage, so even if you go full on enforcer spam you can't stamp out all crime, merely mitigate it.
 

Methone

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It's a good idea.

I disagree about crime naturally affecting Stability, though. Remember, low stability means less Trade Value, which means less Branch Office value for a criminal syndicate, kind of counterintuitive. Maybe crime shouldn't have any effect on its own, but the 'criminal modifiers' should be unavoidable in any case so that crime always acts its effects through those?
 

Tamwin5

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It's a good idea.

I disagree about crime naturally affecting Stability, though. Remember, low stability means less Trade Value, which means less Branch Office value for a criminal syndicate, kind of counterintuitive. Maybe crime shouldn't have any effect on its own, but the 'criminal modifiers' should be unavoidable in any case so that crime always acts its effects through those?
The main idea was to make it so that 100 crime with crime lord deal isn't more stable than 0 crime. A crime free utopia being less stable than the most crime ridden planet in the sector makes no sense. This would ideally be added with a change to the AI such that it doesn't care about crime as much, and is likely to take the crime lord deal.
 

Methone

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The main idea was to make it so that 100 crime with crime lord deal isn't more stable than 0 crime. A crime free utopia being less stable than the most crime ridden planet in the sector makes no sense. This would ideally be added with a change to the AI such that it doesn't care about crime as much, and is likely to take the crime lord deal.
I think it'd be better to just make the Crime Lord Deal stop giving stability. You pay the crime lords to stop actively causing people to die on your world in crushing events, and no more.
 

Tamwin5

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I think it'd be better to just make the Crime Lord Deal stop giving stability. You pay the crime lords to stop actively causing people to die on your world in crushing events, and no more.
Hmm, That might be a way to do it. TBH though, I do like crime lowering stability. It gives the player a small reason to care about 10-20 crime on planets, as opposed to it having no effect at all.
 

Balamut2227

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As Autoritarian I have Crime Lord deal on every single planet with no setback. It is way too strong in combo with nobeles.

I think, deal should do several things:
1. Activate all crime states, but in half strength.
2. Rise Crime level to 100%
3. Turn most jobs in corrupted version with penalty to production
4. Cut off all crime events, that can affect on stability.
 

Tamwin5

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Let's take a look at Hive minds. Currently, Hive Mind Deviancy is even more boring than crime. Crime atleast has several events and multiple different flavors of modifiers. Hive Deviancy has 1 modifier (Drone Deviancy) and 2 event modifiers (I can't actually find a list of the full crime events anywhere). Let's try to spice this up, maybe add some unique things. To start off, Instead of giving -1 Stability per 10 crime, Hives will get -5% unity per 10 deviancy. Let's also come up with some deviant jobs. Some of these will be hive mind only, some non-hive, and some either.

Jobs
  • Deviant: -2 food. -2 amenities. - They skulk through the outskirts of settlements and through maintenance tunnels, raiding food. Our thoughts do not reach them.
  • Feral(hive): -5 food. +1 defense army - These drones have fully reverted back to feral animals, instinct driving them to hunt and kill far beyond what it necessary for survival.
  • Savage(hive): -20% pop growth speed. +100 army starting experience - Feral drones who see the hive as a threat. They hunt only their kin.
  • Nascent Mind(hive): -30 Stability - Cut off from the central hive mind, the commune of deviant drones has begun to create their own linked consciousness. The contradictory commands it sends out is greatly interfering with drones.
  • Recluse(non-hive): -1 food. -1 energy. -1 minerals. Separate from the hive, they live out their lives on the outskirts.
  • Insurgent(non-hive): -5% job production. -10% Livestock production. -15% purging production. These escaped singular creatures seek to hamper the hive, and free their brethren.
To create these jobs, there will of course have to be modifiers.

Modifiers

Deviant Colony - This world is home to large communities of those who no longer respond to commands from the Hive Mind.
+15 Deviancy
+1 Deviant
+1 Deviant per 25 Deviancy.

Deviant Swarm - The tenuous connection that the Hive Mind had to these deviant drones has been completely severed. They live on the planet as packs of animals.
+30 Deviancy
+1 Savage
+1 Feral per 25 Deviancy

Emergent Consciousness - The deviant drones of this world have so fully been separated from the Hive Mind that they have begun to form their own.
+50 Deviancy
+1 Nascent Mind
+1 Deviant per 15 Deviancy

Vindictive Echo - The death of the newborn mind has left the drones who followed it with a single purpose: Revenge.
+30 Deviancy
+1 Savage per 25 Deviancy

Renegade Uprising - Escaped from their pens, these singular creatures are a constant annoyance.
+30 Deviancy -10 Stability
+1 Insurgent
+1 Insurgent per 25 Deviancy

Recluse Commune - Living beyond the edges of the hive, they do not interfere.
+15 Deviancy
+1 Recluse
+1 Recluse per 33 deviancy


Together, these modifiers and jobs make Deviancy MUCH more interesting. The initial event will always be Deviant Colony, but depending on if the jobs get filled by Hive minded or non-hive pops and the number of total non-hive pops will determine if the escalation event will go to Deviant Swarm or Renegade Cabal. A Renegade Cabal will, if there is low enough stability or high enough deviancy, occasionally cause a revolt, where every unhappy organic being kept as livestock or being purged will spawn armies to attack the planet (as happens with current revolts). The other path is Deviant Colony -> Deviant Swarm -> Emergent Consciousness. A Deviant Swarm only happens when a planet has had a Deviant Colony for many years and is above 30 deviancy. An Emergent Consciousness require a similar time period and 80 Deviancy.

Having some of these modifiers will allow special decision to be made. If you have the Emergent Consciousness modifier, there are two special decisions. If you successfully reduce deviance below 50 using the Target decision, it will change to Vindictive Echo for a period of 10~20 years. After that, or if you don't use the decision, it will become Deviant Swarm.

Target Nascent Mind - The thoughts of the newly born hive mind are weak, but they can be heard. By tracking them, hunter-killer drones can find and eliminates the deviant drones key to its thought processes.
25 influence cost
+10 stability.
+3 energy upkeep and -10 deviancy to hunter-killer drones.

Nurture Progeny - This new mind can be grown and cared for, and eventually set free under our watchful eye.
100 influence cost (can't be done on capital)
+30 stability
-20% job output
Starts events to release the planet as a vassal separate hive mind.

There is also a special decision you can do for when you have a Renegade Uprising. In order to enact this, you must not be currently purging any organics, and starting to purge any organics on the planet will fire an event to break the deal.

Negotiate with Renegades - By accepting some of their demands, we can convince these renegades to co-exist peacefully.
50 influence cost
-50% livestock output
+10% non-hive pop happiness
Replaces Renegade Uprising with Recluse Commune.


Now, even if the deal is broken, the recluse Commune will remain. As long as you don't purge and keep the deviancy low enough, the Renegade Uprising event won't fire, and you can get the maximum production out of your livestock.

---

So there you have it! New Deviancy mechanics for Hive Minds. Of note is that there are now some reasons you might want to go for some deviancy, or atleast silver lining benefits or last ditch options. Being able to create hive mind vassals is a very interesting thing to do, and for a Devouring swarm I believe this would be the only way to get vassals. The Deviant Swarm and Vindictive Echo also have possibilities for training ground troops, as you take advantage of the army starting experience. As a whole, I made the Hive deviant events create more deviant jobs than crime ones. This is because Hives have much higher pop growth, so it's to maintain a relatively equal proportion of lost pops.

Due to the fact deviancy from hive pops and from non-hive slaves is calculated using the same metrics, it means that the two different deviant chains can't fire at the same time. I think I'm fine with that, but it is one aspect that others might not like.

Robot Deviancy coming when I get around to it. It will be significantly different from Hive deviancy.
 
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Methone

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Let's take a look at Hive minds. Currently, Hive Mind Deviancy is even more boring than crime. Crime atleast has several events and multiple different flavors of modifiers. Hive Deviancy has 1 modifier (Drone Deviancy) and 2 event modifiers (I can't actually find a list of the full crime events anywhere). Let's try to spice this up, maybe add some unique things. To start off, Instead of giving -1 Stability per 10 crime, Hives will get -5% unity per 10 deviancy. Let's also come up with some deviant jobs. Some of these will be hive mind only, some non-hive, and some either.

Jobs
  • Deviant: -2 food. -2 amenities. - They skulk through the outskirts of settlements and through maintenance tunnels, raiding food. Our thoughts do not reach them.
  • Feral(hive): -5 food. +1 defense army - These drones have fully reverted back to feral animals, instinct driving them to hunt and kill far beyond what it necessary for survival.
  • Savage(hive): -20% pop growth speed. +100 army starting experience - Feral drones who see the hive as a threat. They hunt only their kin.
  • Nascent Mind(hive): -30 Stability - Cut off from the central hive mind, the commune of deviant drones has begun to create their own linked consciousness. The contradictory commands it sends out is greatly interfering with drones.
  • Recluse(non-hive): -1 food. -1 energy. -1 minerals. Separate from the hive, they live out their lives on the outskirts.
  • Insurgent(non-hive): -5% job production. These escaped singular creatures seek to hamper the hive, and free their brethren.
To create these jobs, there will of course have to be modifiers.

Modifiers

Deviant Colony - This world is home to large communities of those who no longer respond to commands from the Hive Mind.
+15 Deviancy
+1 Deviant
+1 Deviant per 25 Deviancy.

Deviant Swarm - The tenuous connection that the Hive Mind had to these deviant drones has been completely severed. They live on the planet as packs of animals.
+30 Deviancy
+1 Savage
+1 Feral per 25 Deviancy

Emergent Consciousness - The deviant drones of this world have so fully been separated from the Hive Mind that they have begun to form their own.
+50 Deviancy
+1 Nascent Mind
+1 Deviant per 15 Deviancy

Vindictive Echo - The death of the newborn mind has left the drones who followed it with a single purpose: Revenge.
+30 Deviancy
+1 Savage per 25 Deviancy

Renegade Uprising - Escaped from their pens, these singular creatures are a constant annoyance.
+30 Deviancy -10 Stability
+1 Insurgent
+1 Insurgent per 25 Deviancy

Recluse Commune - Living beyond the edges of the hive, they do not interfere.
+15 Deviancy
+1 Recluse
+1 Recluse per 33 deviancy


Together, these modifiers and jobs make Deviancy MUCH more interesting. The initial event will always be Deviant Colony, but depending on if the jobs get filled by Hive minded or non-hive pops and the number of total non-hive pops will determine if the escalation event will go to Deviant Swarm or Renegade Cabal. A Renegade Cabal will, if there is low enough stability or high enough deviancy, occasionally cause a revolt, where every unhappy organic being kept as livestock or being purged will spawn armies to attack the planet (as happens with current revolts). The other path is Deviant Colony -> Deviant Swarm -> Emergent Consciousness. A Deviant Swarm only happens when a planet has had a Deviant Colony for many years and is above 30 deviancy. An Emergent Consciousness require a similar time period and 80 Deviancy.

Having some of these modifiers will allow special decision to be made. If you have the Emergent Consciousness modifier, there are two special decisions. If you successfully reduce deviance below 50 using the Target decision, it will change to Vindictive Echo for a period of 10~20 years. After that, or if you don't use the decision, it will become Deviant Swarm.

Target Nascent Mind - The thoughts of the newly born hive mind are weak, but they can be heard. By tracking them, hunter-killer drones can find and eliminates the deviant drones key to its thought processes.
25 influence cost
+10 stability.
+3 energy upkeep and -10 deviancy to hunter-killer drones.

Nurture Progeny - This new mind can be grown and cared for, and eventually set free under our watchful eye.
100 influence cost (can't be done on capital)
+30 stability
-20% job output
Starts events to release the planet as a vassal separate hive mind.

There is also a special decision you can do for when you have a Renegade Uprising. In order to enact this, you must not be currently purging any organics, and starting to purge any organics on the planet will fire an event to break the deal.

Negotiate with Renegades - By accepting some of their demands, we can convince these renegades to co-exist peacefully.
50 influence cost
-50% livestock output
+10% non-hive pop happiness
Replaces Renegade Uprising with Recluse Commune.


Now, even if the deal is broken, the recluse Commune will remain. As long as you don't purge and keep the deviancy low enough, the Renegade Uprising event won't fire, and you can get the maximum production out of your livestock.

---

So there you have it! New Deviancy mechanics for Hive Minds. Of note is that there are now some reasons you might want to go for some deviancy, or atleast silver lining benefits or last ditch options. Being able to create hive mind vassals is a very interesting thing to do, and for a Devouring swarm I believe this would be the only way to get vassals. The Deviant Swarm and Vindictive Echo also have possibilities for training ground troops, as you take advantage of the army starting experience. As a whole, I made the Hive deviant events create more deviant jobs than crime ones. This is because Hives have much higher pop growth, so it's to maintain a relatively equal proportion of lost pops.

Due to the fact deviancy from hive pops and from non-hive slaves is calculated using the same metrics, it means that the two different deviant chains can't fire at the same time. I think I'm fine with that, but it is one aspect that others might not like.

Robot Deviancy coming when I get around to it. It will be significantly different from Hive deviancy.
I really like the idea of hive minds being able to 'reproduce' in this manner!
 

Zoomy

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Nurture Progeny - This new mind can be grown and cared for, and eventually set free under our watchful eye.
100 influence cost (can't be done on capital)
+30 stability
-20% job output
Starts events to release the planet as a vassal separate hive mind.
Would a Devouring Swarm vassal also be a Devouring Swarm?
 

Tamwin5

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Would a Devouring Swarm vassal also be a Devouring Swarm?
Yes! They would also have a special modifier to each other, so they are only at like -100 base and not -1000. "Sibling" Devouring swarms (both spawned from the same overlord) have a similar modifier, but at default relation of around -300.
 

Methone

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Yes! They would also have a special modifier to each other, so they are only at like -100 base and not -1000. "Sibling" Devouring swarms (both spawned from the same overlord) have a similar modifier, but at default relation of around -300.
I mean, I imagine Devouring Swarms shouldn't be able to nurture progeny. They, uh, don't exactly strike me as the nurturing type.
 

Tamwin5

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I mean, I imagine Devouring Swarms shouldn't be able to nurture progeny. They, uh, don't exactly strike me as the nurturing type.
Devouring Swarms still can't take vassals. If you release those new hives as separate empires, they only have total war, even with their parents or siblings. It's a swarm-eat-swarm world out there.

I mainly envision this being useful for RP, where once the player is the dominant power or has eaten everything, they can split off children and watch the children fight.
 

Methone

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Devouring Swarms still can't take vassals. If you release those new hives as separate empires, they only have total war, even with their parents or siblings. It's a swarm-eat-swarm world out there.

I mainly envision this being useful for RP, where once the player is the dominant power or has eaten everything, they can split off children and watch the children fight.
Well sure, but I mean... it's a Devouring Swarm. Their reaction to seeing a bunch of half-rotten Baol corpses is "Yum!"

You'd think they'd just eat that nascent mind in its crib.
 

Tamwin5

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Well sure, but I mean... it's a Devouring Swarm. Their reaction to seeing a bunch of half-rotten Baol corpses is "Yum!"

You'd think they'd just eat that nascent mind in its crib.
Thats completely up to the player. Target Nascent Mind is an option for a reason. If you don't want to spawn little baby devouring swarms, then don't use the decision.
 

Methone

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Thats completely up to the player. Target Nascent Mind is an option for a reason. If you don't want to spawn little baby devouring swarms, then don't use the decision.
It's 'completely up to the player' to play Devouring Swarm to begin with. Let's be honest here: As far as 'flexibility with RP' goes, the genocidal empires are... pretty down there.
 

Tamwin5

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It's 'completely up to the player' to play Devouring Swarm to begin with. Let's be honest here: As far as 'flexibility with RP' goes, the genocidal empires are... pretty down there.
...And thats an argument against adding some RP in why? I mean you could just forbid devouring swarm from taking the decision, but there is a logical story perspective and it doesn't break game balance, so I see no reason too.
 

Tamwin5

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I mean, I imagine Devouring Swarms shouldn't be able to nurture progeny. They, uh, don't exactly strike me as the nurturing type.
To go a little more in depth as to my reasoning for giving this to Devouring Swarms. There are some animals who raise their young or guard eggs, but the moment that those young are mature enough to leave, the parents will eat them without a second thought. An offshoot swarm as a vassal is still "in the nest".

Actually thinking about it, they would probably need to be a special type of subject, so they can expand. They also wouldn't give much tribute to their overlord.
 

Methone

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To go a little more in depth as to my reasoning for giving this to Devouring Swarms. There are some animals who raise their young or guard eggs, but the moment that those young are mature enough to leave, the parents will eat them without a second thought. An offshoot swarm as a vassal is still "in the nest".

Actually thinking about it, they would probably need to be a special type of subject, so they can expand. They also wouldn't give much tribute to their overlord.
Eh, I can see the thread of logic, but it seems even that is too kind for a Swarm, who as far as we can tell, are cursed with an absolutely insatiable hunger that never, ever ends. They're always starving, so the parent will always eat the young without a second thought.

Oh well. It's fun to spitball.