Making cash with Portugal

[th3freakie]

Trying out that WatK/AGCEEP bundle, with my country.

Enjoying it very much so far, but I'm having a problem with money. You see, AGCEEP gives Portugal a bunch of explorers, wich is good, but they all come with 3 warships included. Now, that causes you to start pilling up ships very very fast. Too fast actualy. I'm now paying (50% maintenence of course) 0.9d a month for army and 5d for navy!

That's huge for such a small country as Portuga, and I'm having doubts on the best way to raise money, beeing fairly historical. One option would be to use my 3 COTs, Lisboa, Cape Verde and Sao Tome. But apart from Lisboa, the other 2 are almost worthless (Cape verde has a total value of 3) and no-one competes in them. I COULD just spam the african costline with TPs and then get the money in the COTs, but just how worth would that be?

Or should I invest instead on raising the islands all to city status? Cause the Azores, Cape Verde and S. Tome are all 3 tax value at base.. wich is very very litle.

...or maybe some other method I haven't though of in all my years of noobish eu2 playing?

 

[deadmeat1471]

if i were you, it think about f***ing over some major colonizers, declare war with england or sommit and use that navy to gain territory.

If you can affort to put maintainance on 100% for a while id suggest maybe trying to wipe out their fleet by patroling the channel or west france sea.

my opinion never disband.... use!

*woops, didnt know i swore :/*

 

[th3freakie]

Ho yeah, I forgot to say it - it's still 1460ish. There are no other colonizers around.

Also, I've got another question - how profitable is India really? I usualy just go there for the Historical point, but thinking in pure game-terms, it sounds a prety dreadfull deal.

 

[deadmeat1471]

dont underestimate power of colonies, india is very good because of the sheer number of product it makes, even if the price for that isnt very high to begin with it will increase.

in my opinion i would take south india and work as far north as you can, safer military wise to start from south.
Its proberly one of the best places to take control of in eu2 but its hard to take control of, strong indian nations.

 

[deadmeat1471]

im being aztecs at the moment and looking at the land id say south of central america would be some of most profitable colonies in world lots of spice :rofl:

 

[Mr Me]

If you can reach the Americas annexing the Aztecs and the Inca will give you a huge income boost. Then 5d won't be a problem . If you are over your naval support limit you should uppgrade more coastal/island colonies to cities as I think you get a bonus for every city with a port.

 

[cymruwarrior]

Also, I've got another question - how profitable is India really?

If you capture CoTs, very.
Portugal needs to make use of CoTs and TPs to beef it up, so doing that in Africa is a good starting point.
Brazil has a few provinces with respectable tax base, as does the cape area of Africa. Once you get to Asia, conquer the CoTs, gain monopolies in them, and enjoy the cash.
TPs in the Carribbean sugar islands is a neat investmnt too, you can get there early and they'll be safe for the best part of a century. As portugal i am fairly isolationist and don't get involved in wars with Europeans much, so i generaly don't worry too much about losing TPs.
If the navy gets too big, i just disband what i don't need.

Oh, and stay out of N. Africa, use the initial army to capture the capital of Morrocco for the map, then leave Africa, sue for peace and cash, ton't bother with Tangiers, not woth the trouble IMHO.
Of course, you could go with conquering Morrocco, and aim to capture those gold provinces round about Mali, thats potentialy profitable, but this will probably come at the expense of early colonial expansion.

 

[deadmeat1471]

'ton't bother with Tangiers, not woth the trouble IMHO.'

This, is very true.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

If you can reach the Americas annexing the Aztecs and the Inca will give you a huge income boost. Then 5d won't be a problem . If you are over your naval support limit you should uppgrade more coastal/island colonies to cities as I think you get a bonus for every city with a port.

You only get naval support from ports on your continent or ports land connected to your capital. City status is not needed for naval support, a level one colony will do (like the Azores).

There are lots of ways to play Portugal and become the richest country in the game (like annexing Aztecs). Getting rich with Portugal while playing an historical game is not likely. Annexing Zimbabwe and Oman may be the best chance. Trade posts may help. However, your CoTs are likely to relocate since there is not any competition. Then it depends on where the trade shifts as to whether or not you will make a good deal of money. Making Azores and Cape Verde to cities will most likely hurt rather than help since they raise income only slightly and raise tech costs and stability costs by much more.

 

[EUnderhill]

You can make make Portugal very wealthy without violating the ToT boundaries, but extreme micromanagement is needed - using explorers to help with colonization, keeping colonies large but not city-sized until certain tech levels are reached and then once over eight cities then being able to go for broke, knowing when to take loans and knowing when to mint, that kind of thing.

 

[kolmy]

My strategy as I'm playing Portugal also in WATK/AGCEEP is to not make cities until you can go reformed, then convert and start the heavily colonization. By this time you should be making 400d/month, so if the money that you gain from the conversion from catholic to reformed (25d by province) is not enough, mint a bit, shouldn't be a problem. The places you should have:

-North America, the canadian ones are very good for tp's and the US territory prov's have a good tax value.

-Central America, colonize and conquer the Gulf of Mexico and the Antilles.

-South America, conquer the Incas and colonize Brazil.

-Africa, tp is the way, with some cities (Cape Verde, Gold Coast or St. Tomé e Príncipe, Table and Zanzibar) to travel to India.

-India, conquer the COT's.

 

[unmerged(25822)]

IMO the trick on Portugal is to mint as much as possible, it is an investment , you will rise colonies and investment will be returned , trying to reach india and the spice islands is a very profitable operation, also as the elders of the forum said Aztecs are sitting on money.Table , seicheles, madagascar or the mascarenes are very nice resuply stations and relatively easy to colonize, also trying to reach australia pays off as the provinces are 5-6 tax value and they produce grain , naval nations always love grain!
Fighting wars in europe are just waste of time money and efford, same goes for north africa (although vassalising Morroco/fez and/or algiers will provide you extra income), on the contrary pagan africa is easy to take and then you can convert them to loyal Portugese. In conclusion my way of playing Portugal is Minting+Perfect relations with Spain.

 

[szmik]

you may capture the capital of Morocco to gain knowledge of Timbuktu and send all 5 merchants there; by the time you gain trade lvl 3 you'd be competed out, but it's nice for start. Also try to vassalize Morocco.

There's problem with CoT spamming in this mod. In my last gam Portugal gained Algier from Tlemcen and CoT appeared there next year... and it was profitable, unfortunately at the cost of Lisbonian.

 

[th3freakie]

Thanks for all the input lads.

I did take Tangier for the flavour of it (hard to refrain from taking lands historicaly yours when you're playing your country), but I coudln't vassalise Marroco.

Kolmy, how on earth should portugal be making 400d/month by the time the reformation kicks in? massive colonization without turning colonies into cities? Just how much worth is that method? I reckon it should be bliss to turbo-tech...

I'll try to keep the un-historicability reasonable. South America shall be Portuguese, but since we're allied and all, Spain can keep the North. We'll split the Islands. Also, as much as possible, I'll obviously keep out of the European buisness. Only when we become Spain's vassals in 1580-1640 will I try to do my part of converting England to catholic again

For now... non-citifiable colonization and TPing high trade provinces.

 

[unmerged(32886)]

Kolmy, how on earth should portugal be making 400d/month by the time the reformation kicks in?

Easy. TRADE. Something nobody has mentioned so far. Focus solely on the eco techs. First tech Trade and when you get the ahead of time penalty (when tech costs go through the roof ) switch to Infra. Later on switch back to Trade when the penalty is gone or has become acceptable. Also use all (yes all ) your merchants and start trading aggressively. Preferably using the open slot method since it allows you to expand your trading empire far quicker than mass bombardement of CoT's. At the beginning of each month pause the game and check all CoT's for open places. Put one merchant for each open slot. As to the maps, I generally go the easy way. I just send gifts to an AI nation in exchange for maps. It might cost a lot in the beginning but trust me. Knowing all the CoT's in the world (besides the American ones) prior to 1450 gives you an awesome headstart. Also, in the beginning, try to colonize provs with a minimum tax value of 5. A 1 tax value prov in Africa is just not worth it. As to changing to Reformed. Never done that myself since by that time I was global spanning with numerous cities. Wasn't worth it by then .

 

[th3freakie]

hum.. what is this free slot method you speak of, good sir?

(reformed? we're good catholics, don't ofend our national pride! )

 

[Waffen9999]

I find Tangiers to be quite profitable. Taken early enough and givne your small size you usually >if you're playing with the AGCEEP< get an event to convert the religion. Even if you don't right away, by maximising Catholic tolerance and as much as you can with muslims they won't revolt, it's not a bad gimmick. Early on if you can I like to reach Brazil and colonise there. Africa isn't half bad either if you can get the solid base on it going. Late in the game the wealth from slaves and ivory will be immense.

 

[kolmy]

hum.. what is this free slot method you speak of, good sir?

(reformed? we're good catholics, don't ofend our national pride! )

But the trade bonus is pretty good. I don't care about religion, I prefer the reformed that the catholic

 

[labalag]

hum.. what is this free slot method you speak of, good sir?

(reformed? we're good catholics, don't ofend our national pride! )

Free slot method = Only send mercs to COTs which have open slots, should increase their chances (I personally don't use this method, for me it's the old Batch sending technique...)

And also remember refinery's are your best friends. (In my old Porto game I have 23 refinery's) They increase your income and your Trade efficiency. (In that game by 1660 I'd have 150% TE(and also Trade9))

Going reformed isn't really necessary but maybe useful in ealry game if you really want that TE increase...

 

[kolmy]

And also remember refinery's are your best friends. (In my old Porto game I have 23 refinery's) They increase your income and your Trade efficiency. (In that game by 1660 I'd have 150% TE(and also Trade9))

Isn't 100% the limit?