Making a community-driven changelog for 1.2-beta?

[Cagallo]

There is currently no official changelog as things are being still modified. So it is now a matter for the player to go in and explore (and find) the changes. For those of you already testing the beta, would it be cool to be posting here the changes you see so we can make our own changelog? E.g. new rice paddies, etc.

(I've been seeing only the tweets from OPB and some reddit posts)

 

[Fallofthepurple]

It'd be pretty painful to make a changelog especially when a lot of balance is still to be done and some stuff doesnt work but ive got two changes that are pretty big:

- Arable Land has been reduced in a lot of places, especially South and East Asia.
Pictured here Hebei 1.1.2 vs. 1.2:

- Arable Land has been substantially increased in the Americas.

For Modders:
- AI Strategies have received some substantial changes that allow for easier modification of some values.

 

[ItThatAltersSanity]

Well I'm seeing a new "subsistence fishing village" (and "subsistence rice paddies") when I diff the files. There's also a technical split of "can_build" for buildings into government vs private - not that I'm seeing the vanilla game actually use that difference but it's a nice touch.

I also see this new "in-government attraction" for IGs, not sure if these values have any impact but it's another moddable feature. I should actually start the game instead of just viewing the diffs.

 

[Mannio5]

I didn't plan on doing the whole list, just some of the most important ones, yet here we are:

New mechanics:

• Autonomous investment
• Strategic Objectives
• Government dividends
• Customizable notifications
• Music player

AI:

• Council Republics like each other, but everyone else wants to fight them.
• AI more inclined to conquer homelands.
• More aggressive in cultural conflicts involving Russia or China

Warfare:

• More than one primary wargoal possible
• Commanders will change battle conditions over time
• Generals are chosen for battles according to their talents
• Generals will likewise pick the best units for offense/defense.
• Attrition reduced by 75%
• High-quality troops do not guarantee enemy reinforcement until combat power is balanced
• Unit number randomization is fairer to the attacker
• 3 commander choices available for recruitment
• Unincorporated states cost 50% less infamy
• Barracks PM changes have reduced impact outside the first pm
• First aid uses liquor instead of opium now, Field hospital uses liquor additionally
• Occupation war exhaustion is no longer linear

Trade:

• Trade centers buy at regular prices
• Trade routes start at half their previous size
• Trade centers have a quarter the employees per level
• Trade routes have a base cost of 1 trade center level, making low levels relatively less profitable
• Trade routes become more competitive over time
• Limited Land route capacity for trade

Economy:

• Overhaul of economic laws
• GDP calculation has changed, lower for industrialized countries
• Arable land rebalance: Generally less, Asia much less, Americas more
• New subsistence buildings: Fishing villages and rice paddies
• Automation pms added to arms and munitions industry
• Non Government buildings cannot be downsized under Laissez Faire

Politics:

• Legitimacy: Unacceptable slows law changes, righteous speeds up less
• Political Parties don't become as big
• IGs in government are more popular
• High taxes make government IGs less popular
• More pop influence on popular movements
• Minimum wage and welfare institutions start less extreme
• Landowners no longer forget they were slavers immediately when ban is successful

GUI:

• Reworked technology tree visuals with more information, including benefits and modifiers.
• Improved presentation of trade routes with more information and convenient shortcuts.
• Convoy capacity is shown in the header
• State list in building menu shows more information like available workforce
• Pop lists show the most important consumption goods for each population
• Many state images have received animation effects, such as leaves, birds, and dust
• The list of active constructions has been hidden for improved late-game performance
• Conscripted troops now show the correct unit picture, no more line infantry placeholder image for native uprisings.
• Many additional GUI improvements have been made, reducing the need for quality of life GUI mods

Other:

• Migration rework
• Major Powers can no longer be made puppets/dominions
• Base Wealth education access starts lower and grows with techs
• New countries in central Asia, some existing ones are no longer decentralized.
• Bankruptcy more punishing
• High turmoil more punishing
• Content added for Russia vs. China and China vs. Heavenly Kingdom
• Fixes for commanders remaining busy after expeditions
• AI can bypass normal expedition mechanics
• Native uprisings are more likely
• Instant annexation from victories against uprisings is no longer possible
• Customizable shortcuts
• Many bugfixes not listed

That is a non-exhaustive list, and keep in mind all this might be subject to changes, so don't hold it against the devs if it's different at release.

 

[Houlio]

I've noticed that Triage and First Aid are now a bit different. Triage uses Liquor instead of Opium, and First Aid now also uses Liquor alongside the Opium, Tools, and Fabric.

 

[Mannio5]

I've noticed that Triage and First Aid are now a bit different. Triage uses Liquor instead of Opium, and First Aid now also uses Liquor alongside the Opium, Tools, and Fabric.

Thank you. Not unimportant, added.

 

[Lord Lambert]

as things are being still modified.

this is no justification for no changelog

 

[Gawquon3]

Colonization both interacts with claims now and decentralized nations that lose colonization wars aren't immediately eaten, but grant colonization rights.

 

[Nirmara]

this is no justification for no changelog

It's a rolling beta. Plenty of changes will get in the build at the last minute. This is unlike a regular release that is ready weeks in advance. Coming up with a changelog requires some grooming; you can't simply use the name of Jira issues that were completed or that of the Pull request since those might not be telling of the changes. This grooming takes times, times the team might not have had or decided to spent somewhere else. In any case, delaying the release because the change log is not ready would have caused much more of an uproar than getting it a bit later.

 

[Marco Dandolo]

It's a rolling beta. Plenty of changes will get in the build at the last minute. This is unlike a regular release that is ready weeks in advance. Coming up with a changelog requires some grooming; you can't simply use the name of Jira issues that were completed or that of the Pull request since those might not be telling of the changes. This grooming takes times, times the team might not have had or decided to spent somewhere else. In any case, delaying the release because the change log is not ready would have caused much more of an uproar than getting it a bit later.

Having no change log will cause that many won't even touch the beta at all. It's nice that there are people out there who have the time to find everything for themselves. However, doing serious testing you have to know what you have to test at all.

I don't think it is a good argument to say that many things will change and therefore a change log is problematic; you have an official last patch and a new patch and certainly, there are things which will change in two or three weeks again. But at that point you will see for yourself what is happening; but not knowing at all what changed, because you were not part of the process between the last official version and the beta is a whole different thing. It's not like the community wants a change log inbetween, but before the beta.

I find the explanation quite interesting that a delay because of a change log could have caused uproar. It's a fundamental question: is this beta for testing or for catering? If it is for serious testing, a change log would help to find issues faster and resolve them. If it is for catering, than it is exactly for that: not causing uprorar. There are quite a lot of people who can't stay the whole day on discord and chatting with developers to see if something is new, intended or a bug. Sure, no one is obligated to help or not, but like I said, strategically it would have been better to attract more players to test it.

 

[Cagallo]

Searching them in game would be a Sisyphus task, but we have an overview with the code available for modding.
399 visible files have been touched in the first iteration.

New mechanics:
Autonomous investment
Strategic Objectives
Government dividends
Customizable notifications
Music player

AI:
Council Republics like each other, but everyone else wants to fight them.
AI more inclined to conquer homelands.
Less backing down in specific cultural conflicts involving Russia or China.

Warfare:
More than one primary wargoal possible
Battles will change modifiers over time
Generals are chosen for battles according to their talents
Generals will likewise pick the best units for offense/defense.
Attrition from general orders is reduced to a quarter the old value.
High quality troops don't mean enemy can reinforce until combat power is balanced
Random unit factor no longer favors defender
3 commander choices available for recruitment
Unincorporated states cost 50% less infamy
Barracks pm changes are less punishing outside the first pm
First aid uses liquor instead of opium now, Field hospital uses liquor additionally
Conscripted troops now show the correct unit picture, no more line infantry placeholder image for native uprisings.
Occupation war exhaustion no longer linear

Trade:
Trade centers buy at regular prices
Trade routes start at half size
Trade centers have a quarter the employees per level
Trade routes have a base cost of 1 trade center level, making low levels relatively less profitable
Trade routes become more competitive over time
Limited Land route capacity for trade

Economy:
Economic laws overhaul
GDP calculated differently
New subsistence buildings: Fishing villages and rice paddies
Automation pms added to arms and munitions industry
Arable land rebalance: Generally less, Asia much less, Americas more

Politics:
Unacceptable legitimacy slows law changes, righteous speeds up less
Political Parties don't become as big
IGs in government are more popular
High taxes make government IGs less popular
More pop influence on popular movements
Minimum wage and welfare institutions start less extreme
Landowners no longer forget they were slavers immediately when ban is successful

Other:
Migration rework
Major Powers can no longer be made puppets/dominions
Base Wealth education access starts lower and grows with techs
New countries in central Asia, some existing ones are no longer decentralized.
Bankruptcy more punishing
High turmoil more punishing
Russia vs. China content
China vs. Heavenly Kingdom content
Fixes for commander keeping busy after expedition
AI can bypass normal expedition mechanics
Native uprisings more likely
Lots of GUI improvement and changes and boy, are some of them useful.


That is a non-exhaustive list, and keep in mind all this might be subject to changes, so don't hold it against the devs if it's different at release.

I've seen the same list appearing in Reddit

 

[DebbieElla]

Let's stay on topic and not get personal.

 

[alanschu]

I find the explanation quite interesting that a delay because of a change log could have caused uproar. It's a fundamental question: is this beta for testing or for catering? If it is for serious testing, a change log would help to find issues faster and resolve them.

My experience (as a game dev and as someone that has taken part in beta tests) is that overwhelmingly people taking part in open betas "just play the game." Typically few (single digit percentage) will even write bug reports. Depending on the scope of what you want from the beta (specific focus testing on the changed features) compared to exploring how players engage with the game with the changes, potential unanticipated knock on effects, etc, I wouldn't conclude that the lack of a changelog means that the beta isn't for testing.

Betas should, ideally, be built largely around telemetry analysis and other soft ways to analyzing how players are playing since those are things even the most disengaged players will still be able to contribute.

To be clear I'd still post a changelog. I am just suspect that there'd be significant difference in people opting in to take part in the beta with or without the presence of a changelog.

 

[Clophiroth]

Does anyone know how the Migration rework works?

 

[yurcick]

Typically few (single digit percentage) will even write bug reports

I know just the way to put this down to decimal points. Simply don't post the changelog to deny the users a way to know what is WAD and what isn't.

 

[alanschu]

I know just the way to put this down to decimal points. Simply don't post the changelog to deny the users a way to know what is WAD and what isn't.

As someone that works in QA, I actually find it immaterial (and dispute that it'd significantly change the amount of people opting in to essentially early access for new changes).

If something seems like a bug, report it.

Chances are even if it is WAD, it's an interesting point of usability feedback. As it's a beta, you can leverage this as a beta tester since there is already going to be an additional eye for feedback.

If Paradox finds that they get too many pointless or unactionable tickets, they can revise their plans going forward (at which point you've still leveraged the beta program to improve their processes. Good job!)

 

[Meneye]

However, doing serious testing you have to know what you have to test at all.

We're not serious testers.

Sure, no one is obligated to help or not, but like I said, strategically it would have been better to attract more players to test it.

I'm pretty sure testing everything was only part of the reason they did this, as they have their own QA team and their own procedures for noticing and fixing bugs. Not that us reporting bugs isn't useful, but I imagine they already know about most of the bugs in the game right now, and would be more interested in what the community feels are unacceptable bugs

The main thing they're looking for, as we've seen in most of their posts talking about the beta, is feedback and how well we personally think the systems work. I'm not saying that as a guess, either, just look at what they stated.

"By launching our first Open Beta, of course! In this way you will have a chance to experience all the juicy parts of Update 1.2, but also share your feedback with us in advance, allowing us to improve what we are currently working on." -Dev Diary 73

"Your feedback, ideas, and discussions have all been instrumental in helping the team prioritize our time and efforts for this update." -Dev diary 74.

I'm not sure why I can't quote them, but anyways, they're clearly looking for our opinions about the features. A changelog isn't necessary, they want to know more about how we feel about the new mechanics and if there's anything they can add or tweak to make it more fun or intuitive.

 

[Oglesby]

Governments that start with elections and parties, now start with default votes.

 

[alanschu]

I'm pretty sure testing everything was only part of the reason they did this, as they have their own QA team and their own procedures for noticing and fixing bugs. Not that us reporting bugs isn't useful, but I imagine they already know about most of the bugs in the game right now, and would be more interested in what the community feels are unacceptable bugs

It's also looking at things at scale, which can be advantageous if you have a game with a lot of heavily interconnected systems where it can be difficult to assess the knock on effects of changes beyond what the explicit changes are.

A bug that has a 1% repro rate may never get seen with a team of 100 QA looking at it (and that's a very big QA team). Get 1,000 extra people and stuff like this can start to manifest with a degree of consistency. This is why/how a public beta can be really advantageous even if it's "just a bunch of people playing and not actually actively reporting issues."

You're undoubtedly correct that internally they'd have their own ability to focus on the details of specific changes. I'd like a changelog because I find changelogs exciting to read (I'm a nerd...) even though I likely will not opt into the beta because I have an MP game in progress as is plus it can feel a bit too much like work for me.

The main thing they're looking for, as we've seen in most of their posts talking about the beta, is feedback and how well we personally think the systems work. I'm not saying that as a guess, either, just look at what they stated.

Coupled with knock on bugs that weren't expected/caught in other patches, I do think that there is a generalized "wide net" approach to why they opted to deploy the way they did. People that are familiar with the game will recognize stuff that has changed without explicit direction, and can report on stuff that feels off.

As you say, it can also garner user sentiment for finding which wheels are the squeakiest.

 

[Harry Hinderson]

Transcaucasia was added