Make Vassals care more for their liege

[Matthias_Wlkp]

I noticed now, that vassals don't care much for their liege. They fight rebellions or raiders, but they don't care if their liege is under attack and their demense is in danger.

I'm playing an Ironman game as Serbia (Old Gods start), I already conquered all de jure Croatia and Serbia (but the lands originally held by Byzantines). One of the provinces, closest to Lombardy was held by them - I attacked them when they were weak, so the King did not have enough levies to protect those lands. However, the Duke who that province did have enough troops to support his liege - together they did have a good chance against me.

Suggestions:
- If I declare a war to claim a province, it should be automatically declared against everyone who would stand to loose. In this case the Duke, but if it was a part of an empire, it should concern the King as well.

or

- Everyone in the defender's realm should have an option to join the war, similarly as in Holy Wars. Parties that stand to loose should have a better chance to join.

I generally find this strange that even allied vassals are unable to join their liege's wars.


What happened next in my story - the Duke who lost that province immediately declared a war against me to claim it back...

 

[NewbieOne]

Make Vassals care more for their liege

+1

I noticed now, that vassals don't care much for their liege. They fight rebellions or raiders, but they don't care if their liege is under attack and their demense is in danger.

Yeah. That's unrealistic. It wasn't just a contract, it was a relationship. In many cases the vassal-liege relationship coincided with some sort of ethnic, tribal or clan 'traditional leadership'.

I'm playing an Ironman game as Serbia (Old Gods start), I already conquered all de jure Croatia and Serbia (but the lands originally held by Byzantines). One of the provinces, closest to Lombardy was held by them - I attacked them when they were weak, so the King did not have enough levies to protect those lands. However, the Duke who that province did have enough troops to support his liege - together they did have a good chance against me.

The worst thing is when people don't care that they will be losing land, apparently. Well, there is an opinion bonus, but they don't do anything.

Suggestions:
- If I declare a war to claim a province, it should be automatically declared against everyone who would stand to loose. In this case the Duke, but if it was a part of an empire, it should concern the King as well.

Yeah, at least as long as it's inside his de iure.

Everyone in the defender's realm should have an option to join the war, similarly as in Holy Wars. Parties that stand to loose should have a better chance to join.

Yes, it should be something else than: 'You just can't,' or: 'sorry, you may only send 20/50/80% of your levies to help your brother not lose his stuff to your king's neighbour.' There should be limits to both what vassals have to do and want to do, but if they want to, they should be allowed to.

I generally find this strange that even allied vassals are unable to join their liege's wars.

I've asked at least for the vassals' expensive retinues to be taken off the map if the vassal is supposed to remain a passive party, but nope. Nobody cares.

What happened next in my story - the Duke who lost that province immediately declared a war against me to claim it back...

That's CK2 rules to you. In some situations even you as the human player are apparently supposed to act the same. Watch someone else lose it, then take it back.

(I've declared many, many wars just to share an enemy with someone I want to help. Ever since like patch 1.04.)

 

[Azarias59]

+1

If a vassal's or a vassal's ally's land is under siege, or is at risk of being taken, they should join their liege's war.

Also, if a vassal has a good opinion of his liege or is allied to his liege, he should join the war too.