Make Nukes a trade-off.

[unmerged(149861)]

As it is now, a major nation can lob four or five nukes a game at a country and receive no penaltyfor it. This is unrealistic. At the least, a malus to diplomatic relations is needed, and some system where using nukes had a bad effect, to limit their already overpowered nature.

 

[comsubpac]

is it really unrealistic? when you are at war with a country the relations don't matter.
your allies shouldn't care how many bombs you use. why should neutral countries care?

 

[unmerged(47028)]

Did the USA suffer from a malus to diplomatic relations?

 

[unmerged(149861)]

is it really unrealistic? when you are at war with a country the relations don't matter.
your allies shouldn't care how many bombs you use. why should neutral countries care?

"Oh god they just used a totaly new weapon that can flatten entire cities and they want military transport rights!!!!!!"

 

[podcat]

"Oh god they just used a totaly new weapon that can flatten entire cities and they want military transport rights!!!!!!"

sounds like it would be wise to give it to them...

 

[unmerged(149861)]

Did the USA suffer from a malus to diplomatic relations?

Yes, the Russians were very wary of America until they developed thier own. Not to mention the resentment in Japan...

 

[comsubpac]

"Oh god they just used a totaly new weapon that can flatten entire cities and they want military transport rights!!!!!!"

strategic bombers could do that already for several years. should they also have an impact on diplomacy? what about artillery?

Yes, the Russians were very wary of America until they developed thier own. Not to mention the resentment in Japan...

yeah, i am sure russia and japan would have loved the US without nukes...

 

[Ksyr]

And did the people back home and in allied/neutral countries really know what was going on? Some of the massive bomber raids did more damage than the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Did they cause relation drops/dissent/otherpenaltyofsomesort?

Personally I think the two RL nukings where a good idea since they saved a lot of lives in total.

 

[unmerged(149861)]

You can shoot down bombers and keep long range guns to far to hit anything, but not much you can do against a nuke in the 1940s...

 

[unmerged(47028)]

I think at that time there was not much known about the long lasting effects and therefore there was no such resentment.

 

[comsubpac]

You can shoot down bombers and keep long range guns to far to hit anything, but not much you can do against a nuke in the 1940s...

you can shoot them down much easier since it is just one plane while sometimes more then 1000 bombers were used in one raid.
well, you can't do much about strategic bombing too or what did germany achieve against the allied bombings?

 

[Ksyr]

You can shoot down bombers and keep long range guns to far to hit anything, but not much you can do against a nuke in the 1940s...

Thats the point. The enemy will be more likely to surrender. And nuke bombers can still be shot down.(At least it happened once in a germany game when the sovjets got enough interceptors in the air)
How would people react if you told them you have the means to end the war now, but you want to continue the war so more people can get killed?

 

[IrationalFear]

The tradeoff is that it takes 2-3 techs constantly researched ahead of time and building 75IC Civilian reactors to get the correct tech available by 1944. Then ten more months must be used to complete the production of the first nuke. It already takes up enough resources amd time to get it (8 year's worth); shouldn't it have at least the payoff that it does?

 

[unmerged(149861)]

you can shoot them down much easier since it is just one plane while sometimes more then 1000 bombers were used in one raid.
well, you can't do much about strategic bombing too or what did germany achieve against the allied bombings?

Put the nuke on one of those 1000 planes then. The odds are good...

Thats the point. The enemy will be more likely to surrender. And nuke bombers can still be shot down.(At least it happened once in a germany game when the sovjets got enough interceptors in the air)
How would people react if you told them you have the means to end the war now, but you want to continue the war so more people can get killed?

Hardly. If some nation has developed a new, uncounterable weapon that nobody else has, it makes diplomacy a mess.

 

[comsubpac]

Put the nuke on one of those 1000 planes then. The odds are good...


Hardly. If some nation has developed a new, uncounterable weapon that nobody else has, it makes diplomacy a mess.

then why did they just send one plane? if you send 1000 planed you might lose half of them when you drop the bomb...

what happened when when someone developed an uncounterable weapon in reality? everyone who doesn't like you will like you less but why should you care that is exactly why you build weapons in the first place. ingame you are already at war so relations to your enemies won't matter. the atomic bomb of WW2 was not that devastating and shocking as you might think. it didn't do anything that couldn't be done before.

the V2 was also a devastating uncounterable weapon. did it affect the relations between GB and germany? no, still at war as before...
the relations between germany and Switzerland? i don't think so...

 

[Ksyr]

Put the nuke on one of those 1000 planes then. The odds are good...


Hardly. If some nation has developed a new, uncounterable weapon that nobody else has, it makes diplomacy a mess.

There is a difference between the good guys having the only nuke and the bad guys having the only nuke. There are many different opinions about americans, but back then they where the good guys and the bad japanese did actually surrender after getting hit. Not to mention that the sovjets stopped in Germany instead of taking all of Europe. The US having those weapons and having showed their willingness to use them where a good thing in the first post war years. At least for me who lives in western Europe. Diplomacy isn't a mess if half the world loves you and the other half is dead scared

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

Historically, only three planes were used:

The Enola Gay (named after Colonel Tibbets' mother) was accompanied by two other B-29s.... At nearly 08:00, the radar operator in Hiroshima determined that the number of planes coming in was very small—probably not more than three—and the air raid alert was lifted. To conserve fuel and aircraft, the Japanese had decided not to intercept small formations. The normal radio broadcast warning was given to the people that it might be advisable to go to air-raid shelters if B-29s were actually sighted. However a reconnaissance mission was assumed because at 07.31 the first B29 to fly over Hiroshima at 32,000 feet (9,800 m) had been the weather observation aircraft Straight Flush that sent a morse code message to the Enola Gay indicating that the weather was good over the primary target and because it then turned out to sea the 'all clear' was sounded in the city. At 08.09 Colonel Tibbets started his bomb run and handed control over to his bombardier.

 

[Phönix]

There are many different opinions about americans, but back then they where the good guys

There are many opinions about "back then" as well. And calling nuking a city a good thing is in my opinion unacceptable.

 

[Danmark Rising]

then why did they just send one plane?

Because we literally only had constructed one bomb for each attack. Little Boy and Fat Man were little more than experiments. Little Boy hadn't even been tested before it was dropped and was only the second atomic explosion to every occur with Fat man being the third.

/now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

[comsubpac]

Because we literally only had constructed one bomb for each attack. Little Boy and Fat Man were little more than experiments. Little Boy hadn't even been tested before it was dropped and was only the second atomic explosion to every occur with Fat man being the third.

/now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

1000 bombers does not mean you have to use 1000 nukes...
the main problem was that nobody did know what exactly would happen and if the planes would survive the explosion themselves. the blast wave and the mushroom cloud are not exactly something you want to fligh through... also most of the pilots would have been blinded for several minutes which is not a good idea when you fligh in close formation...