Make maginot line great again

[lekim]

So as we all know from episodes 2 and 3 and episode 4 preview fortresses are useless, nobody build them that is why they also in the focus tree, so that players and AI will have historically accurate defense lines.

Nevertheless the defense line were actually not that useless at all. So I would love to change that.

1. Set up a good price
2. Each fort of fortress should give an additional bonus - it can host one division which gets 100% fortification bonus no matter when a division was placed there
3. One fortress one division
4. Fortresses should provide additional intel
5. They should provide attack delay of few hours
6. They provide unit move speed bonus if you go from one region with a fort to another region with a fort - roads were optimized for military usage
7. Cap the max number of forts in the country, like Germany in 43 should not be having more then 50 to avoid fort spamming

This is all realistic and makes gameplay more fun.

This can be a great intention for the players to build an Atlantic wall not of one division units, but of naval forts and garrison very mobile units every 2-4 states and the enemy still cannot easily surprise you (good intel, forty bonus). Same for UK home defense.

What do u think guys?

 

[lekim]

@podcat do you think something like this can be done in mod or it requires core change?

 

[kviiri]

So as we all know from episodes 2 and 3 and episode 4 preview fortresses are useless, nobody build them that is why they also in the focus tree, so that players and AI will have historically accurate defense lines.

Where did you get that idea? At least in the WWW multiplayer campaign a piece of Maginot line held out for *ages* after the rest of France was overrun by the Germans. They give really good bonuses, the real reason to not buy them is when you're going to be on the offensive you wouldn't gain much from them anyway.

 

[RogalDorn]

Maginot Line was awesome in that broadcast. it just completely shut down the German Advance and cost them a half a million men before it was eventually flanked and overrun. I have no complaints with it at all!

 

[lekim]

Where did you get that idea? At least in the WWW multiplayer campaign a piece of Maginot line held out for *ages* after the rest of France was overrun by the Germans. They give really good bonuses, the real reason to not buy them is when you're going to be on the offensive you wouldn't gain much from them anyway.

@Da9L west wall/atlantic wall performance

 

[lekim]

Maginot Line was awesome in that broadcast. it just completely shut down the German Advance and cost them a half a million men before it was eventually flanked and overrun. I have no complaints with it at all!

That is true!

However in my experience it was never worth to put resources into building the line, better spent it on IC and equipment.

 

[kviiri]

@Da9L west wall/atlantic wall performance

Can you link to a video so I know what you mean?

 

[lekim]

Can you link to a video so I know what you mean?

You can see it here

It was defined somewhat earlier though.

 

[kviiri]

You can see it here

It was defined somewhat earlier though.

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be seeing there. Daniel gets sniped by British landings in places where he doesn't have any troops, what does that got to do with forts?

 

[lekim]

Look at the coast of France

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be seeing there. Daniel gets sniped by British landings in places where he doesn't have any troops, what does that got to do with forts?

Look at the french coast.

 

[kviiri]

Look at the coast of France


Look at the french coast.

At which point? The video is over an hour long.

 

[Procyanide]

I never got the impression forts were useless at all, just the opposite actually. As far as I could tell they are pretty awesome to have and give your troops some serious defense. The obvious drawbacks are the fact they cant move and the enemy can plan around them.

 

[Drone971]

I never got the impression forts were useless at all, just the opposite actually. As far as I could tell they are pretty awesome to have and give your troops some serious defense. The obvious drawbacks are the fact they cant move and the enemy can plan around them.

100% agree
"teh suz canal" - daniel could not go through it in the WWW. thanks to the fortifications. great example in the video above... BTW: i am really curious, how well could Czechoslovakia defend its borders (heavily fortified and in mountains)
Funfact: I actually saw those fortifications and they survived even "shitload" of demolition charges placed underneath them... the bunker just jumped and rolled over.

hope the ingame forts will do as well at release as they did in WWW

 

[kviiri]

I never got the impression forts were useless at all, just the opposite actually. As far as I could tell they are pretty awesome to have and give your troops some serious defense. The obvious drawbacks are the fact they cant move and the enemy can plan around them.

Agreed, but imagine how powerful they could be if used in tandem with hammer and anvil -type tactics. Have an infantry force defend your forts, and when the enemy makes a push against it, punch through the line with tanks and push them against the forts. Ouch, such carnage!

 

[lekim]

I never got the impression forts were useless at all, just the opposite actually. As far as I could tell they are pretty awesome to have and give your troops some serious defense. The obvious drawbacks are the fact they cant move and the enemy can plan around them.

Ok, maybe I told it incorrectly, of course they provide bonuses, but price/value was so bad that there was little intention to build them.

 

[kviiri]

Ok, maybe I told it incorrectly, of course they provide bonuses, but price/value was so bad that there was little intention to build them.

The WWW was played on a pre-beta build that probably was very poorly balanced. I believe the final values will be so forts are very efficient as long as you know where your enemy will be coming from.

 

[Daddl]

Additionally, at least for me, it does make a huge difference now that forts are built with civilian factories. I never really bothered to build infrastructure, forts or anti-air in Hoi3 as I never got the impression they are worth more than additional troops, but now that the equipment for the troops is provided by military factories, the decision between forts or just more civilian factories is something to think about.

 

[Dessertspoon]

Something more like EU IV fort system would work well IMO. It feels more natural to build a key fort system in, say, Metz, and have it provide bonuses to all contiguous provinces and as long as it is held, enemy gets certain maluses in the affected provinces. This then makes operational strategy revolve more around capture or destruction of forts.

FWIW fort utiliy/fort spamming was an issue in Vicky 2 as well. Forts werent that great, but they were also very pedestrian so you'd just build htem in literally every province. IMO there needs to be a good balance between construction cost and utility, and enemy breakthrough stats.

You'd rather not bother if not building them in every single province along a front means there is an easy gap for the enemy to exploit. But on the other hand a single fort shouldnt unduly tie up 60 enemy divisions in the vacinity - German can brute force things if you have enough guys and can make the front wide enough against the poor Czehcs in their Sudeten fortifications for example

They should cost a lot but provide more substantial, wider effects IMO

 

[safe-keeper]

Make Maginot Line great again

They should've made Germany pay for it.

Edit: but yeah, something like the zone of control system of EU4, or some other malus from being near fortresses, and advantages to holding them, would be really interesting. Someone suggested fortresses, at least the bigger ones, working as supply hubs, and I really like that idea.

 

[lekim]

They should've made Germany pay for it.

Edit: but yeah, something like the zone of control system of EU4, or some other malus from being near fortresses, and advantages to holding them, would be really interesting. Someone suggested fortresses, at least the bigger ones, working as supply hubs, and I really like that idea.

This a great idea as well (both of them).