Make HRE members pay for the tax and manpower bonuses that the emperor gets

[Mindel]

Currently, the game magically generates extra money and manpower out of thin air to provide the bonus for the emperor of the HRE. Rather than relying on such cheats, a better idea would be to implement a money and manpower tax on the members of the HRE, with the proceeds to be transferred to the emperor. The mechanic could be as simple as a variant on war reparations and a manpower malus.

This HRE tax would allow for more in-game flexibility: the amount could change with imperial authority and/or the number of reforms. It would also balance out the advantages for small nations in joining the HRE, as there are currently almost no downsides to doing so. The protection afforded by the HRE should come at a cost.

 

[Lavilledieu]

The biggest issue I have with such a proposal is that the hre is already an obnoxious environment for minors, especially theocratic or republican minors. You get simply overloaded with disadvantages making the game more about fighting those mechanics than actually playing the game (or you cheese your way out of this).

The list of disadvantages is large: more ae, more claim cost, more difficult diplo vassalizing, imperial cities, many high level forts, unlawful territory and the major opinion hit, major opinion hit when you annex a member, higher province cost in the custom nation designer, religiously very unstable, locked government rank,…

 

[Mindel]

The biggest issue I have with such a proposal is that the hre is already an obnoxious environment for minors, especially theocratic or republican minors. You get simply overloaded with disadvantages making the game more about fighting those mechanics than actually playing the game (or you cheese your way out of this).

The list of disadvantages is large: more ae, more claim cost, more difficult diplo vassalizing, imperial cities, many high level forts, unlawful territory and the major opinion hit, major opinion hit when you annex a member, higher province cost in the custom nation designer, religiously very unstable, locked government rank,…

All of that hits you whether or not you are a member of the HRE. So none of them are disadvantages of being in the HRE.

In fact, you've just listed the many advantages being in the HRE gives you against outsiders attacking you.

And, most importantly, you get the protection of the emperor.

 

[Jespoke]

I think this is one of those cases where the more realistic way of doing it is not necessarily the way to go. We don't need even more reason for large members to leave, such as having to give bunch of money and manpower to the emperor that may very well be your rival by then. The locked Duchy rank is already a big deal.

 

[Mindel]

I think this is one of those cases where the more realistic way of doing it is not necessarily the way to go. We don't need even more reason for large members to leave, such as having to give bunch of money and manpower to the emperor that may very well be your rival by then. The locked Duchy rank is already a big deal.

I've never seen an AI nation leave the HRE, except by scripted event. Have you?

 

[Jespoke]

I've never seen an AI nation leave the HRE, except by scripted event. Have you?

No i have not, I'm pretty sure they are wired not to. But it is also rare for an AI HRE state to get big enough for it to be a problem, while for a player it is the norm.

 

[Mindel]

No i have not, I'm pretty sure they are wired not to. But it is also rare for an AI HRE state to get big enough for it to be a problem, while for a player it is the norm.

Being a duchy is an absurdly cheap price for a free pile of allies against outside attack. And you are even free to leave the HRE at any time without real consequences.

Even if the tax was implemented, it would be so minuscule that its impact would be negligible: think about the bonus the emperor currently gets, and split that 50 ways.

 

[Me_]

All money and manpower is magically generated out of thin air in the game. That being said vassals get a lower amount of National tax income (6 instead of 12) than independent states and given their status perhaps HRE members should be somewhere between the two.