Factories and resources already cost manpower in practice. The abstraction is effective enough that it's better to just tweak the numbers if you don't like them. Messing with manpower/supply before things like war score, peace conferences, or front line micromanagement would be crazy.
Make factorys and resource extraction cost manpower?
- Thread starter sterrius
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Not only is food and starvation not something Paradox want in the game, it's also more of a civilian issue both at the root and consequences. It's not like soldiers eat that much more then civilians, so having more soldiers wont increase the need for food and if there is a lack of food so is it likely to hit the civilians rather then military.
The main premise of this thread is also a bit off as while there may be some nations that got more manpower then they used historically, so are the others who got less.
The main premise of this thread is also a bit off as while there may be some nations that got more manpower then they used historically, so are the others who got less.
Historical logos of Porsche, Boeing, and an assortment of other famous companies are already in the game. If you haven't noticed them, either you weren't paying attention or you've never played Germany, the USA, France, the USSR, or the UK
I now understand the problem, I hadn't noticed that they developed this game for children of 10 years old, it makes sense now many do not like micro management and more advanced mechanics. In any case, although the game is for 10-year-olds, this shouldn't be an obstacle to creating DLC's for adults.
Historical logos of Porsche, Boeing, and an assortment of other famous companies are already in the game. If you haven't noticed them, either you weren't paying attention or you've never played Germany, the USA, France, the USSR, or the UK
I don't like to play with these nations, the game gets too boring cause they are very OP, I like challenges.
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You could play humans. That might make you reconsider your claim that the game is for 10 year olds.
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With all due respect, for me, this is all leftism. The CIV NUKEs have been there for years, the last CIV game is also for 10 year old children, but in it you can make cities devastate. This "politically correct" is bizarre. They should understand that it is only a game and not reality.
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You have really confused me. Perhaps its the diction of the post, but I was under the impression that you think the game is for 10 year olds because the game isn't complicated enough. What does any of this have to do with leftism?
I must say with respect that's economically wrong.
You don't understand that those guys, even if not producing anything immediately useful for war, still generate economical activity (they pay taxes, and with their wages they buy things from industries like the automotive industry which are important in case of war). Without them, your civilian economy is weakened, and with a weak civilian economy, you'll get a weaker military industry (and research btw). And that weakened economy now need to feed, supply, equip those fellows.
Ofc there's no impact on the available military industry. But that will weaken your economical growth (which in game is your civilian factories building new civilian factories)
In game, each level of conscription should increase the % of civilian factories unavailable or give malus to build new civilian buildings.
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I see most posts dislike the idea and lots of ppl claiming that the work/fighting force trade off is already covered by conscription laws. I disagree completely. The laws have no economical impact whatsoever before Service by requirement, which for me is a late game consideration at best (usually I manage to avoid taking it all together). This translates to failure in translating into the game a crucial aspect of state wartime management, that all the major ww2 participants struggled with (some more, some less, but all did).
The most dramatic effects were those of the war in the east. You see massive enlargement of 'Gulag' in Russia (and rising percentage of female prisoners - for lack of men), as 'slave labor' solution to resource demand. In case of Germany you see interesting fluctuations, as massive conscription for 'Barbarossa' is partially reversed in the beginning of 1942. After it became clear the war(contrary to German hopes and expectations) isn't going to be short, Hitler (coordinating with industrialists) sent large numbers of skilled laborers home.
In the game, playing Germany, I can field 3.5mln + strong army before needing Service by requirement (the law with 1st economical penalty) - that's anything but historical...
I like Hoi4 and I don't personally consider above to be a major problem (there are way worse issues - supply, for 1). But it's definitely a poorly represented aspect of ww2 and could get more attention.
The most dramatic effects were those of the war in the east. You see massive enlargement of 'Gulag' in Russia (and rising percentage of female prisoners - for lack of men), as 'slave labor' solution to resource demand. In case of Germany you see interesting fluctuations, as massive conscription for 'Barbarossa' is partially reversed in the beginning of 1942. After it became clear the war(contrary to German hopes and expectations) isn't going to be short, Hitler (coordinating with industrialists) sent large numbers of skilled laborers home.
In the game, playing Germany, I can field 3.5mln + strong army before needing Service by requirement (the law with 1st economical penalty) - that's anything but historical...
I like Hoi4 and I don't personally consider above to be a major problem (there are way worse issues - supply, for 1). But it's definitely a poorly represented aspect of ww2 and could get more attention.
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If you want a 100 % realistic Game sit down 1.000 Years and Programm one. Then you see why the Devs are going the easyest and middle way.
1. The Game is to complex that you can´t programm it to the end!
2. If you do (like companys which think they could) bring out a not playable game!
3. The Point 2 gets not manageable Bugs, Features and to much complexity to the Gamers and Developers! Either the Gamers are overstrained and scrap the Game or the Devs don´t work on it anymore!
4. The Game get a shopkeeper and bring the Devstudio no income!
About that Reasons the Civilication-Row, Panzer-Corps-Row, Panzer-General-Row, Command & Conquer-Row, Mafia-Row, Doom-Row, Battletech, Hoi 4, XCom-Row and many more are programmed not complex and are playable for normal Gamers too.
Hoi 4 isn´t done yet and we get some more Refits, Reworks and such, but it have to be easy to learn and easy to play like it is now. Not Complex like the prevoius Hoi-Games and other to complex games like Falcon 4.0.
1. The Game is to complex that you can´t programm it to the end!
2. If you do (like companys which think they could) bring out a not playable game!
3. The Point 2 gets not manageable Bugs, Features and to much complexity to the Gamers and Developers! Either the Gamers are overstrained and scrap the Game or the Devs don´t work on it anymore!
4. The Game get a shopkeeper and bring the Devstudio no income!
About that Reasons the Civilication-Row, Panzer-Corps-Row, Panzer-General-Row, Command & Conquer-Row, Mafia-Row, Doom-Row, Battletech, Hoi 4, XCom-Row and many more are programmed not complex and are playable for normal Gamers too.
Hoi 4 isn´t done yet and we get some more Refits, Reworks and such, but it have to be easy to learn and easy to play like it is now. Not Complex like the prevoius Hoi-Games and other to complex games like Falcon 4.0.
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That's why I put this statement in my post, though.
The mechanics are there to penalize you for conscription. They are, perhaps, too generous.
(For what it's worth, in the mod we use in MP, it nerfs the manpower granted by earlier manpower laws so that Service by Requirement comes much sooner for most combatants.)
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Did the old hoi sell? Yes, and quite a lot. Victoria 1 and victoria 2 sold, yes and a lot, a Game dev or a CEO lost the bet that victoria 2 would not earn much and Vic2 is still played a lot today thanks to the great community of vicky2 modders!
Stellaris has become much deeper and more complicated: has anyone complained? No, they were happier!
Eu4 at D1 was very simple: Now if a novice bought a bundle with all the main DLCs (eg art of war and other essentials) to learn it, it would take hours and hours of play!
So don't get stuck on "the game gets more complex" = "the game gets uglier". Hoi2 and hoi3 these problems (number of troops, lag etc) did not have them. They had other problems, solved by hoi4 (for example the puppet system that from hoi2 always seemed to be missing something to make it really interesting) but to solve these problems, they decided to remove excellent features to try new ones by creating strange things (CIC exchange for resources, the few spy slots for spies, troops that cost only equipment and between equipment captured and produced by your industries and occupied industries do not struggle) or put them (in my opinion badly done badly) in paid DLC (LaR)
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I read that, I agree, my post was directed at the general 'tone' of the whole thread.
what is the name of the mod you've mentioned?
The game has expansions, the more expansions the dev creates, the more complex the game gets. This is very good, because beginners can start with the normal game without the expansions and while they learn the concepts they buy the expansions. It makes no sense to make it a reason not to accept new expansions with mechanics that will make the game a little more complex but fun at the same time.
So if you're new to the game, buy the normal game, when you learn the basics you buy an expansion that adds new mechanics to the game and so on.