Make Croatia exist under a Hungarian PU in 1444

[FuscusNight]

If the devs actually ever do a Balkan immersion pack I'd really like to see Croatia being updated so it starts under a PU of Hungary with if possible it's own mission tree to take revenge against the Hungarians for the death of the Croat king Petar Svačić who is in a way considered to be the last true Croat king before the PU happened.

The Current Croatian achievement [Krabater] could easily be updated to simply be about breaking out of the PU and reclaiming all core Croatian land and then moving some cavalry to stockholm.

Hopefully this suggestion won't be followed with Jake having a laugh at the Balkan immersion pack idea again like at the suggestion wall at PDXcon 2018 :v.

 

[Sanguine Caesar]

If the devs actually ever do a Balkan immersion pack I'd really like to see Croatia being updated so it starts under a PU of Hungary with if possible it's own mission tree to take revenge against the Hungarians for the death of the Croat king Petar Svačić who is in a way considered to be the last true Croat king before the PU happened.

Agreed, except for the "take revenge against the Hungarians" part, as I'm not really sure what you mean by that. But overall, yes; Croatia should be in a PU as it retained great amounts of autonomy thanks to the efforts of Croatian nobles and the sabor. They continually acted as a thorn in the side of whichever overlords ruled them and attempted to centralise control in the region, with their authority only truly being curtailed as a result of the Magnate Conspiracy of 1671. From then on Croatia would become just another province of the Habsburg monarchy, but until that point neither Austria nor Hungary had managed to extend centralised control over all of Croatia (Slavonia however, was more much integrated into Hungary than Croatia Proper). So by all means, it makes complete sense to have this represented as such in-game.

Hopefully this suggestion won't be followed with Jake having a laugh at the Balkan immersion pack idea again like at the suggestion wall at PDXcon 2018 :v.

Well the Balkans will be updated with the Europe Patch later this year, so they might just find this worthwhile

 

[FuscusNight]

Agreed, except for the "take revenge against the Hungarians" part, as I'm not really sure what you mean by that. But overall, yes; Croatia should be in a PU as it retained great amounts of autonomy thanks to the efforts of Croatian nobles and the sabor. They continually acted as a thorn in the side of whichever overlords ruled them and attempted to centralise control in the region, with their authority only truly being curtailed as a result of the Magnate Conspiracy of 1671. From then on Croatia would become just another province of the Habsburg monarchy, but until that point neither Austria nor Hungary had managed to extend centralised control over all of Croatia (Slavonia however, was more much integrated into Hungary than Croatia Proper). So by all means, it makes complete sense to have this represented as such in-game.


Well the Balkans will be updated with the Europe Patch later this year, so they might just find this worthwhile

I just noticed your thread in which you're adding suggestions you find for the Balkan pack in this subforum, hvala što si dodao moj prijedlog na tu listu ^^. I hope some of the suggestions from the community make it in once the balkan update happens one day.

 

[Lor360]

The official explanation is that Croatia had very little chance to rebel and break its PU in 1444 so the game treats it as integrated. This is the same reason why Castille doesnt start out with Leon in a personal union. High autonomy subjects like Croatia are treated as higher autonomy provinces, or nations starting out with large amounts of land controled by the nobility.
The biggest problem is that even when Hungary fell and Austria was at its weakest (the siege of Vienna) Croatia didnt atempt to break off (Im not a expert though for that time frame).

The game cant be expected to represent subjects that where subjects in name only, otherwise 1444 France would be just 1 province with 27 vassals, and Great Britain in 1821 would still be Scotland ruling England and Wales in a personal union.

The only hope would be if somebody could show that in real life Croatia had a above average potential to go to war with Hungary and break off a few decades before or after 1444.

 

[Sanguine Caesar]

The official explanation is that Croatia had very little chance to rebel and break its PU in 1444 so the game treats it as integrated. This is the same reason why Castille doesnt start out with Leon in a personal union. High autonomy subjects like Croatia are treated as higher autonomy provinces, or nations starting out with large amounts of land controled by the nobility.
The biggest problem is that even when Hungary fell and Austria was at its weakest (the siege of Vienna) Croatia didnt atempt to break off (Im not a expert though for that time frame).

The game cant be expected to represent subjects that where subjects in name only, otherwise 1444 France would be just 1 province with 27 vassals, and Great Britain in 1821 would still be Scotland ruling England and Wales in a personal union.

The only hope would be if somebody could show that in real life Croatia had a above average potential to go to war with Hungary and break off a few decades before or after 1444.

Well there was the Cetin Election in 1527, in which the sabor independently granted the Croatian Crown to Ferdinand I von Habsburg, while the Hungarians at that time were still engaged in an internal civil war and succession crisis. The sale of Dalmatia to Venice in 1420 also royally pissed off the Croatian nobility, as did the repeated encroachments of the Hungarians in Slavonia which, despite being a separate banate at the time, was still viewed as rightfully Croatian. There is also precedent from the Medieval Era as many bans ruled with enough authority to be considered de facto completely independent of Hungary (i.e Pavao Šubić). These are just a few, but these are some of the more important examples of reasons the Croats would have for seeking independence.

As for the level of integration between the two Kingdoms, I can also provide some information about that if it is required