Make Carthage Stronger

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am300307

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Any mods out there that increase Carthages starting power? Or how would one go about in making the Carthage stronger at the game start. I would like to see them expand more and put up more of a fight against Rome.
 

Armfeldt

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Carthage is not that weak really. The problem is that the AI can't handle shipping troops around in a reasonable way.
 
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Daft

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In my first Punic war, Carthage landed troops around Genua, which kind of surprised me. At that point I had a legion and several levies, but I had to hire some mercs to deal with Carthage's smaller stacks on Corsica.

I sent my legion to Carthage itself, but was met with a 24k stack, and settled for conquering the islands for now.

I felt that they could have split that stack perhaps, and put even more pressure on me by landing it in Sicily or maybe even as support for their northern invasion.

Still, I had to fight for my gains. Will be interesting to see how the second war will develop. They declared on me for the first, but I will declare on them next.
 
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Nostalgium

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As @Armfeldt says, it's not that Carthage is weak, it's that the AI is bad at naval campaigns. In my Kush campaign, Rome should by all rights have crushed me in a straight up fight, and I was prepared for this, building huge choke point forts along the Nile in preparation for my war against Egypt (which was guaranteed by Rome), but they never saw action. Rome spent their entire 240-ship fleet (that I hadn't a chance at matching, for the record) on shipping 15-cohort-stacks to Somalia one at a time, who I promptly ignored because I had a choke-fort in Aksum as well, so they couldn't get to Meroe. Once the Egyptian army was swept off the field, I met no actual fighting resistance from Rome, because they simply didn't land troops in the Delta.
 
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SanicK

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Yeah, playing with Rome, I thought that Carthage will be an easy task, because "a.i. is broken" or something. In reality, It was a tough nut to crack. It played well about expanding and annexing feudatories and had a HUGE army. I won of course, but the problem is that A.I. really have trouble with naval campaigns like @Armfeldt said. So, I really wish that the devs give priority to this aspect and I think the game will be a lot better.
 
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Poliut

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Generally, that first Rome-Carthage war ends up being a defensive war for Rome once they position their troops in Sicily and Sardinia. Carthage may send a stack to northern Italy that starts off as a scare, but then once that stack whittles down they become a nuisance.

IDK if Carthage gets any event buffs for losing a battle to Rome - Rome gets one for losing a naval battle to Carthage (just have one boat to get whipped by Carthage and boom - buffs!).

From what I've seen, Carthage can hold Africa, and Rome can hold Italy. Once they share a land border (usually Spain) things can get interesting.
 
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am300307

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Carthage is not that weak really. The problem is that the AI can't handle shipping troops around in a reasonable way.
That might be right. Although the issue I sometimes see is that Carthage fails with its economy. It will slowly scrap 1 ship a month until it stop losing money monthly. I would like to either give Carthage some buffs or increase its pop count at the start. I think if it had a stronger economy, maybe it could do better with it naval aspect. I dont want to buff vanilla Carthage, just try to see if this produces a more enjoyable Rome/Carthage balance in my games.

Any assistance would be appreciated :p
 

Daft

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OP has misspelled Carthago delenda est in the thread title. Plz fix or do somefink.

But seriously though, after some more playing I am also of the opinion that a lot of this is down to AI handling of invasion fleets. If that could be tweaked Carthage might become more of a force.

Then it will be all the more satisfying when we salt the earth where Carthage once stood.
 
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Torugu

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Leaving the Naval AI aside (yes, that’s a big part of why Carthage feels weak); I like the idea of buffing Carthage a lot more than I like the idea of nerfing Rome.

I love the strength of Rome at the moment - having them as a serious threat makes the game a lot better -, but I do think that it would be more interesting if AI Carthage, Epirus and Macedon had a realistic chance of occasionally replacing them as the Big Bad of the Western Mediterranean.
 
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SanicK

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Leaving the Naval AI aside (yes, that’s a big part of why Carthage feels weak); I like the idea of buffing Carthage a lot more than I like the idea of nerfing Rome.

I love the strength of Rome at the moment - having them as a serious threat makes the game a lot better -, but I do think that it would be more interesting if AI Carthage, Epirus and Macedon had a realistic chance of occasionally replacing them as the Big Bad of the Western Mediterranean.
I fully agree. One of the reasons why Rome has the current strength is because it has special modifiers for "antagonist a.i.". I don't know if it is easily modifiable, but someone with more experience with mods and if it were possible to give this "antagonist a.i." for Carthage, I would like to know how it will fare.

https://imperator.paradoxwikis.com/Antagonist
 
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Pale Blue

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Carthage is not that weak really. The problem is that the AI can't handle shipping troops around in a reasonable way.
If the AI were better Carthage would completely destroy Rome. The large Italian coast is a huge weakness for Rome.
 

Chehabian

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Ditto on the navies.
Carthage never manages to send more than 10k troops on mainland Italy.
I'm always in a position where I can easily fend off their 'invasion'. More of a nuisance really.
 
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Carthage is immensely strong, actually. The moment they use their navy properly, you are doomed no matter where in western Mediterranean you stand. They have a horde of mercenaries to combine with their giant vassal swarm. They start with the largest navy in the game, and in the previous versions that fleet was nearly impossible to defeat without a long drawn-out war that almost killed your own nation in the process.
Even with a full Italian peninsula conquest, a war with them is dangerous as Rome when things go properly for them.

That's the issue though - they don't always use their navies properly under AI control, making them seem weaker than they actually are, while making OP Rome seem even more OP.
That AI is the one turning their deadly military into a nuisance.
 
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Bovrick

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As @Armfeldt says, it's not that Carthage is weak, it's that the AI is bad at naval campaigns. In my Kush campaign, Rome should by all rights have crushed me in a straight up fight, and I was prepared for this, building huge choke point forts along the Nile in preparation for my war against Egypt (which was guaranteed by Rome), but they never saw action. Rome spent their entire 240-ship fleet (that I hadn't a chance at matching, for the record) on shipping 15-cohort-stacks to Somalia one at a time, who I promptly ignored because I had a choke-fort in Aksum as well, so they couldn't get to Meroe. Once the Egyptian army was swept off the field, I met no actual fighting resistance from Rome, because they simply didn't land troops in the Delta.
Does the AI have the CK addiction to swarming the opposition Capital by the shortest route? I've noticed when AI Rome and Carthage beat each other, the only area they end up taking (aside from the scripted wargoals) are each others' capitals, at least in the first decisive war.
 

LordSkorpio

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I fully agree with AI being the problem. Yesterday I was playing as Rome, Carthage declared war on me (I own all of Italia, including the isles) and none of their fleets or their armies ever showed up. I won the war without a fight and I liberated one of their occupied factions in Hispania for free.
 

Hootieleece

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The Clausewitz Game engine AI likes to create doomstacks with Navies. Also the AI is incapable of shipping more than one Army stack per fleet. Thus Carthage AI will have all its ships in one fleet thus only allowing it to ship one army at a time thus its big advantage (bigger Navy) of being able to ship troops to multiple spots at once is negated.

Also the AI is having trouble with exiled levies that it never disbands as well.
 
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Nostalgium

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Bring Military Experience by Naval Battles
Yes please. Naval drill too while we're at it. Not that this would in any way help the AI, but y'know - I'd like the navy to feel like an actual branch of the armed forces that you can professionalize, not just an afterthought.
 
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