Because some people just have to get those achievements (god knows why) and refuse to even consider using mods.
Their loss! I haven't played without mods since release.
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Make auto-survey tech available earlier for Hyper Drives
- Thread starter alxgvr
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Because some people just have to get those achievements (god knows why) and refuse to even consider using mods.
Their loss! I haven't played without mods since release.
It is not a good feature but it supports a good concept.
I can just go from my experience. Which is that after I research auto survey, I get more and more detached from the science ships to a point where I don't even know where they are and just work with the outliner. Due to the tech placement, this happens rather late in the game where there are less anomalies anyway and I am merely busy with mopping up the rest of the galaxy. Hence my argumentation that auto-survey drastically reduces the identification with the science ships. Put in the greater context of the concept, this is undesirable, especially in the early decades of the game.
That you don't care about the science ships is either an indicator that you are not susceptible to the concept and would rather play Civilization in space (there is nothing wrong with this!) or that the concept is not supported by features. Or both, of course. Claiming the latter and at the same time demanding that one supporting feature is removed seems contradicting to me. I like the concept and want to see it in the game. As stated before, when we see an overhaul of the early game, manual survey might not be needed anymore. But I have yet to hear an idea on HOW to do this. All I have heard so far is "remove it" (i.e. forced manual survey), without considering (or deliberately approving) the consequences for the concept of early exploration (which I deem to be negative).
edit: If you just care for the mineral boni, you could just stop surveying and buy star charts. Should be cheaper considering all influences. And faster. And with much less micro.
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On Steam, there is a Mod you can subscribe to. It is called Auto Exploration At Start made by Had.
I highly recommend this if you want auto-explore at day one. I do not play with many mods that change gameplay but this one was an auto include for me.
I highly recommend this if you want auto-explore at day one. I do not play with many mods that change gameplay but this one was an auto include for me.
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I hear you. I don't say i don't WANT to be immersed - i just am not. I would like to be. Problem is, i WANT to automate atm. I don't want to want it, it's just how it is at this time.
Problem is that really RP'ing instead of min-maxing makes it impossible for me to survive endgame crises. I guess that's the ultimate reason why i don't care. Transition from 4x to 'EUIV in Space' doesn't work for me..
Not really.
The 'fun' part of the early game exploration for me is choosing which anomalies to research, special projects, the strategy of how many science ships you want to use vs expansion and infrastructure.
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Day 1 auto-explore would just be the first step in a chain of snowball effects. First, the loss of multiple Science ships early on to Pirates and other space based enemies would quickly result in many players coming here to WHINE about how their science ships now require heavy Armor and Guns with which to protect themselves.
Sadly, said Salt is most likely to come from those who have already stated that they don't give a rats arse about those ships or the scientists that work them. That is of course, until the Day 1 auto-explore feature they so clamored for simply becomes an early black-hole for their much needed Influence Pool and replacement ships costs begin to cut into Fleet production needs.
So, it is likely best provide them their Day 1 Auto explore request but Caveat that with a note that those Science Ships will "never get guns" and any whining about the lack of guns after the fact, about something asked for and then provided, will not ever alter that fact. And let's be done with this already.
Gimme gimme gimme...
Sadly, said Salt is most likely to come from those who have already stated that they don't give a rats arse about those ships or the scientists that work them. That is of course, until the Day 1 auto-explore feature they so clamored for simply becomes an early black-hole for their much needed Influence Pool and replacement ships costs begin to cut into Fleet production needs.
So, it is likely best provide them their Day 1 Auto explore request but Caveat that with a note that those Science Ships will "never get guns" and any whining about the lack of guns after the fact, about something asked for and then provided, will not ever alter that fact. And let's be done with this already.
Gimme gimme gimme...
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Day 1 auto-explore would just be the first step in a chain of snowball effects. First, the loss of multiple Science ships early on to Pirates and other space based enemies would quickly result in many players coming here to WHINE about how their science ships now require heavy Armor and Guns with which to protect themselves.
Sadly, said Salt is most likely to come from those who have already stated that they don't give a rats arse about those ships or the scientists that work them. That is of course, until the Day 1 auto-explore feature they so clamored for simply becomes an early black-hole for their much needed Influence Pool and replacement ships costs begin to cut into Fleet production needs.
So, it is likely best provide them their Day 1 Auto explore request but Caveat that with a note that those Science Ships will "never get guns" and any whining about the lack of guns after the fact, about something asked for and then provided, will not ever alter that fact. And let's be done with this already.
Gimme gimme gimme...
The Auto Exploration Science ship will just avoid the System with the pirates and monsters...?
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I can't believe people think micro-ing troop attachments and fleet engagements is fun right now.
Or micro-ing diplomacy.
But surveying? I like that. Gimme more of that to do with other ships doing diplomatic things.
Or micro-ing diplomacy.
But surveying? I like that. Gimme more of that to do with other ships doing diplomatic things.
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I don't think anyone like that. In fact, most people just ignore because it's not worth the time of the clicks.
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Indeed, thus starts snowball phase 2. Players complaining how auto-survey doesn't do what "they" want it to do and needs to be "fixed."
P.S. Thanks for adding to the "snowball" list.
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Science ships already have the evasive setting, and the fastest emerency ftl escape for this reason, both of which are automated. If the science ship goes somewhere it's really shouldn't it's going die whether you sent it there manually or automatically.
A lot of players still send out their starter corvettes to find habitable worlds to survey ASAP. those who don't would have lost their science ship anyway, those that do won't.
It's after you've already scouted inside your territory, the habitable worlds, and still have dozens of more systems with no immediate value, and your attention is focused on stellaris building simulator, that you don't really care about what is probably a gravity well with 1-2 science a few asteroids with two minerals, maybe some energy and short of an anomaly or strategic resource not much else.
Lastly it costs 1400 physics tech. 1400... Thats more than just about every tier 2 tech in the game, 3x more expensive than tile block techs, the same cost as the tier 4 spaceport tech, etc. Why?
You only know when you are in there and that might be too late. Given you don't want to give science ships extraordinary sensor rage to automate even more. Scouting with corvettes is something I do too most of the times but because of pirate event this is not always the best idea...
Good question. I believe this is done on purpose. To make it a mid- to late game technology (and maybe to see how much people really want the tech
). So unless you really really hate manual survey, you will postpone the tech due to its cost. And the reason is that a slow, manual start is part of the game concept. It is not supposed to be an easy stage of the game where you just 5-speed through. (Although you still can and I hope the concept is strengthened in some update.)- 2
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Indeed, thus starts snowball phase 2. Players complaining how auto-survey doesn't do what "they" want it to do and needs to be "fixed."
P.S. Thanks for adding to the "snowball" list.
Why? Why players will complain about the Ships NOT suiciding?? The auto-survey just need to do one thing: Survey anything without killing itself. That's it. Any other thing the players can choose to do manually to fit whatever he want (like suiciding on a monster). Even then, Paradox can simple let the Evasive/passive etc say what the ship does.
If you only know when you are in there... It will not be the same thing if I ordered there manually? If I send manually to a system or the ship auto enters in there, the result is the same. What is the issue?
Good question. I believe this is done on purpose. To make it a mid- to late game technology (and maybe to see how much people really want the tech
Why you are relating micro = hard? The early stage is easy, you simple make a grind fest of clicks to survey things and that's it. You random shift click a lot of system, Speed 5 the thing and Wait clicking 'Later' in the anomalies.
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When you give a manual order ,you can tell your ship to only go where you scouted ahead (e.g. with a corvette). So the result is not the same.
Not hard in game terms but hard in role-play terms; more opposed to "convenient" than "easy". You don't start your star empire with all shiny-ships that do everything by themselves but with more or less basic versions of ... everything. You are unexperienced and head out into the unknown thus everything takes more effort. My impression was that this is the setting wanted in the game and imo, this missing feature underlines it.
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The problem is that if you didn't have to "micro" your science ships in early game, there would be a long stretch of time with little or nothing to do.
Of course, that means there's a problem with the early game. There isn't enough to do. No gameplay in "managing" 1 planet or waiting for colony ship tech to pop. The first few decades of the game are nothing but waiting for minerals to fill up and the fake gameplay of choosing where to send your science ships.
Of course, that means there's a problem with the early game. There isn't enough to do. No gameplay in "managing" 1 planet or waiting for colony ship tech to pop. The first few decades of the game are nothing but waiting for minerals to fill up and the fake gameplay of choosing where to send your science ships.
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How it's not the same?? If you scout ahead, the Auto Ship will know he should not enter in the dangerous system. And if you are so scared that the ship will die, you still can order the ship manually to whatever you want.
We have a lot of things that does everything automatically, and the huge amount of abstraction we have to assume everything is being done by itfself, we even have an AI that Generate Battleships Designs for you! But for some reason, the act of a Science Ship moving to the next thing and surveying by himself, are a simbol of how 'unexperienced and head out to the unknown' you are??
Seriously, the only thing that change when I play the Vanilla game (for archivements) and the Auto-Survey at the Start of the game Mod is that my hand hurt a lot less for the huge amount of clicks I did not had to do. And guess what, I still manually send the Ships to things I want.
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You simple increase the speed too, no?? Also, in the start of the game you will still micro your science ships because you want some specific systems surveyed first and the planet you will expand surveyed first too. If you have Auto survey, you hit auto survey, if you don't, you random shift click a lot of systems and Hit Speed UP untill you have something to do.
Also, the colony ship tech should ALWAYS pop up until it is researched.
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But on auto-explore, the science ship will also fly into non-prescouted systems, which you can not control. On manual, you can. That is a difference and an important one. It does not mean that auto-explore is useless but you wanted a difference, there you go.
I don't like the term obviously, but when this feature wasn't included in the beginning of the development and on release and then, when it was, it was put in mid-game on purpose (!), I would have to say it: Obviously, this is the case. And while my interpretation of the developers reasoning may be way off, the result is the same.
There is some reasoning behind this feature coming late and unless all of you who want to have it early do not try to understand this reasoning, you won't get happy. Acting like this was just an accident or design slip-up is not appropriate, as all knowledge we have indicates a conscious decision. This doesn't mean you have to accept it, of course. Just adapt and broaden your argumentation.
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You can control. You can stop it. And I wanted a pratical difference, not something that no one cares in a game.
But we know why they don't give auto explore in the start, it's exactly what romothecus said. "The problem is that if you didn't have to "micro" your science ships in early game, there would be a long stretch of time with little or nothing to do. Of course, that means there's a problem with the early game. There isn't enough to do"
It's simple a gimmick to keep the player busy with a clicking game to distract him that he don't have anything to do in the start of the game other than see his Minerals go Up to make the colony ship. But this is simple the newest game design the developers use: The psicological manipulation. The same with free to play games and his daily quests, gamble systems, etc... that now plagues AAA games.
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This man speaks the truth. Auto-explore should simply be a button you press.
Not a mod to install or 40 techs to research.
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