Make Africa and Middle East more important

[Fawr]

Can the value of Afrcia agricultural product be integrated into civilian factory? Which means adding more civil factory to the various states of Africa, increasing it's importance.

I don't think that's a good idea. The real impact of food shortages in Europe sound like in game terms they would be unrest (eg in conquered Greece), lower national unity, lower available manpower.

The effect of having extra civilian factories in Africa would be a faster expansion of military activity. Did African foods really let the British build more fighters, ships or tanks?

 

[Secret Master]

The effect of having extra civilian factories in Africa would be a faster expansion of military activity. Did African foods really let the British build more fighters, ships or tanks?

Yep.

It would be horribly abusive in the hands of a human.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

That is an argument for leaving it out, not putting it in. Put simply, if it didn't make a difference in the war, it should probably be left out. And if it was strictly local or regional to boot, it definitely should be left out. Last I checked my history books, no power in WWII fought any campaigns to seize enemy sugar cane, banana, or cotton plantations.

No enemy fought over Chromium, if I remember right.

 

[Pro_Consul]

No enemy fought over Chromium, if I remember right.

They did, two nations in particular, each fighting with Germany over it. The single largest chromium producer (and one of the largest consumers for military use as well) was USSR, and it was largely to get his grubby mitts on their oil, steel and chromium that Hitler had been determined from the beginning to attack them once his western front was dealt with.

The UK was the third producer and also one of the biggest military consumers of chromium, but like most of their other key raw materials almost none of it was produced locally in the British Isles; it had to be shipped from distant overseas possessions. So one could say that in part the Battle of the Atlantic was fought to deny/maintain access to those resources, including the chromium.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

They did, two nations in particular, each fighting with Germany over it. The single largest chromium producer (and one of the largest consumers for military use as well) was USSR, and it was largely to get his grubby mitts on their oil, steel and chromium that Hitler had been determined from the beginning to attack them once his western front was dealt with.

The UK was the third producer and also one of the biggest military consumers of chromium, but like most of their other key raw materials almost none of it was produced locally in the British Isles; it had to be shipped from distant overseas possessions. So one could say that in part the Battle of the Atlantic was fought to deny/maintain access to those resources, including the chromium.

Oh.

Sugar was still an important resource, as were all agricultural products, as they could end in a civilization facing starvation (The United Kingdom) or the people getting unattractive (grub) and unhealthy diets (same meal) due to the lack of food that is either being spent in the war effort (supplies) or was lost at sea (Atlantic convoy raiding).

It wasn't fought over but it is still an important resource.

 

[Secret Master]

The single largest chromium producer (and one of the largest consumers for military use as well) was USSR

Doesn't Turkey and the UK produce more in game, though?

 

[Pro_Consul]

Doesn't Turkey and the UK produce more in game, though?

Nope. USSR is first (271 units), Turkey second (224), and UK third (155) in the game.

 

[Secret Master]

Nope. USSR is first, Turkey second, and UK third in the game.

I guess I miscounted, then.

 

[Dalwin]

The Middle East isn't important? Did I miss a memo?

Shoot, in my last MP game as Germany, I took out Turkey, Syria, the Suez, Iraq, the Saudis, Yemen, and Oman to get the oil (and seal the Med). And I needed that oil under 1.3.2.

I imagine it's even more important now in 1.3.3. If the Allies are bombing your synthetic plants all the time, even 20-30 oil from the Middle East would be handy. You have to bottle up the Soviets to prevent them from going in and taking the oil, but that's what Turkey's deserts and mountains are for.

Regarding sealing the Med: You only need to contest the Suez and the straits at Gibraltar to seal the Med from Allied ships. If you occupy Spain and the east side of the Suez, the Allies are sealed in the Med. They can still receive convoys of supply to North Africa and Egypt via certain ports, but the islands and Italy are basically off limits, as my enemies found out the hard way.

You may only need to contest Suez to seal the Med, but the Axis actually needs to control it if they wish to project any force into the Indian Ocean or if they wish to allow trade between Japan and the European fascist states. Considering that the only significant source of aluminum within reach of Japan is in Siberia, control of Suez takes on special importance for them in 1.3.3. Italy and other minor Axis allies have decent supplies of it and trading through the Red Sea is not nearly as painful as doing so through the Channel.

 

[Secret Master]

You may only need to contest Suez to seal the Med, but the Axis actually needs to control it if they wish to project any force into the Indian Ocean or if they wish to allow trade between Japan and the European fascist states. Considering that the only significant source of aluminum within reach of Japan is in Siberia, control of Suez takes on special importance for them in 1.3.3. Italy and other minor Axis allies have decent supplies of it and trading through the Red Sea is not nearly as painful as doing so through the Channel.

I'll add that to the list of "Things the Axis should not be allowed to do in the Middle East."

 

[billcorr]

Can the value of Afrcia agricultural product be integrated into civilian factory? Which means adding more civil factory to the various states of Africa, increasing it's importance.

If agricultural products in Africa add more civilian factories to those African territories, would the same logic be applied elsewhere?

Extending the argument to areas outside of Africa, HoI4 might see the following changes:

• Agricultural products in the USA would then add more civilian factories to the USA.
• Agricultural products in Germany would then add more civilian factories to Germany.
• Agricultural products in Siam would then add more civilian factories to Siam.

If I understand it correctly, the thesis is "Make Africa interesting to conquer in singleplayer games. Without increasing resources in Africa, that continent is not "fun" in singleplayer games."

I suppose a mod could be made for gamers who want more resources. (I believe there is already a Increased Resources Mod.)

 

[Theodorian]

Africa is mostly irrelevant in competitive multiplayer meta as well.

It doesn't matter who owns Suez in multiplayer. The only point of an Axis victory is Africa is to take the rest of the Middle East.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Africa is mostly irrelevant in competitive multiplayer meta as well.

It doesn't matter who owns Suez in multiplayer.

In my last four campaigns of HoI4 MP (that lasted until Barbarossa) the side that won also always had suez either controlled or contested.

It might be a coincidence but my feeling is that controlling the Middle east allows:

1.) Axis to link up and crush India ( which also robs Allies of their last rubber = shuts down all airplane production except for from synthetic rubber )
2.) Axis to get more important oil
3.) Axis to trade more freely through more secure routes
4.) Axis to put pressure all around Soviet stretching them thin, allows Axis into the Black sea and threaten the Soviet Oil in baku.

All these combined means that the Axis is in a significantly better position to defeat Soviet then without it.

 

[Secret Master]

It doesn't matter who owns Suez in multiplayer.

I think in No Man's Land it does matter somewhat.

If the Axis cut the Suez and Gibraltar (they don't have to own it, just contest them both), then continental Italy is more or less safe. And if for some odd reason the Allies are in Italy already when both are cut, their forces are screwed. (It happened last game.)

This can change Axis garrison and defense priorities substantially. The Balkans, Italy, and the Med side of Spain are safe. The Allies can still supply Africa via Casablanca, but they can't route convoys to Casablanca, then send new supply convoys from Algeria to Sicily or whatever.

Of course, if the Axis contests the Suez, then they should also be seizing all that juicy oil in the area. But you can screw the Allies in MP by contesting both Suez and Gibraltar.