Make Africa and Middle East more important

[KenanMilano]

So, I was playing as Turkey and fighting against Britain. I captured Suez Canal and Egypt,but stopped there and made a static defensive line there. The reason why I didn't invaded africa is not because of british army but because of useless war on desert without gaining anything and losing soldiers to attrition. I think they should add more resources to africa in order to make that theater important

 

[Otto of england]

There really wasn't that much produced in Africa at the time. The region deserve maybe a dozen rubber or so, and perhaps a few more other resources, but nothing significant.

I'm not sure about you, but that wouldn't be enough to get me to try and conquer the region, it's just too large and a sure fire way to bleed troops.

 

[him_15]

Some rubber were added in the Western Africa from last patch. But as Otto said there weren't much resources in Africa at that time. I think securing Egypt is enough.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

The thing is that Africa does have a bunch of resources but none of those resources can be represented in game due to them being mainly agricultural or cotton. This is why Victoria II ****s on Hearts of Iron IV in industry.

 

[mighij]

There really wasn't that much produced in Africa at the time. The region deserve maybe a dozen rubber or so, and perhaps a few more other resources, but nothing significant.

Although you're nearly one 100% right there is one major exception: Belgian Congo's Uranium

Although Uranium is not a resource in HOI IV they might create something to simulate the importance of Uranium, Control over the Suez, the middle east, etc

Hoi III had Strategic Effects:

http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Strategic_Effects

If these Strategic Effects return in a patch/dlc perhaps control of the Congo (and other Uranium mines) could give major bonusses to the development of nukes.

 

[Tacticus101]

Controlling the Suez is actually pretty strategically useful. Its just that in SP you don't really need those kind of advantages against the AI.

 

[uihysxc]

There really wasn't that much produced in Africa at the time. The region deserve maybe a dozen rubber or so, and perhaps a few more other resources, but nothing significant.

I'm not sure about you, but that wouldn't be enough to get me to try and conquer the region, it's just too large and a sure fire way to bleed troops.

i disagree
the problem with afrika as it stands is that civilian economy isnt modeld very well
e.g. Nigeria made the British a lot of Money, and in 1936 it brought in enough money to finance the Royal West African Frontier Force (RWAFF) ( 5 times over actually)
ghana exported cacao woth ~11 Mio pounds a year prior to the war
sierra leones natural ressorces at least were important enough to hand a monopoly to the "Sierra Leone selection trust"

another thing is the low manpower we get out of africa, Kenya sent ~100k Men into the 2nd world war (no way you'd get that many in the game without releasing kenya as a puppet)


this stuff combined is imho why it is hardly worth fighting over africa

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

I feel like the whole industry system just needs to be redone.

The famine in Great Britain can't be simulated due to the lack of any agricultural products, China's coal supply isn't shown and it makes the game seem extremely basic.

 

[Spear12]

What Africa and the Middle East really lack is potential. Most of Africa and the Middle East were very poorly developed (the former very much by design in regards to the European powers) so i get the lack of industry. However, there are way too few states in Africa. They need to expand the number of states significantly and the same goes for the Middle East, although the problem is less intense. There is also a lack of a potential for industry I.e. building slots. There are also too few formable nations and events regarding Africa which ties into the lack of potential. If I play as South Africa or Ethiopia, I want to be able to have the potential over time to rival Europe in industry (If i conquer the whole continent or close to it), or Iran/Saudi Arabia in the Middle East for instance to a lesser degree. I think this is being handled in mods and over time we will get expansion regarding this, but it's a really bad problem as of now.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

What Africa and the Middle East really lack is potential. Most of Africa and the Middle East were very poorly developed (the former very much by design in regards to the European powers) so i get the lack of industry. However, there are way too few states in Africa. They need to expand the number of states significantly and the same goes for the Middle East, although the problem is less intense. There is also a lack of a potential for industry I.e. building slots. There are also too few formable nations and events regarding Africa which ties into the lack of potential. If I play as South Africa or Ethiopia, I want to be able to have the potential over time to rival Europe in industry (If i conquer the whole continent or close to it), or Iran/Saudi Arabia in the Middle East for instance to a lesser degree. I think this is being handled in mods and over time we will get expansion regarding this, but it's a really bad problem as of now.

I think the states being set to be 'rural' or 'urban' for the entire game is one of the problems.

 

[Spear12]

I think the states being set to be 'rural' or 'urban' for the entire game is one of the problems.

Yeah. Either you can make more states as to have more "urban" states in Africa and Middle East, or be able to convert rural to urban.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

Yeah. Either you can make more states as to have more "urban" states in Africa and Middle East, or be able to convert rural to urban.

I don't want to see it happen too fast, at most I would just want to see only a few states have that happen and even then it shouldn't take a short amount of time.

The length, while infinite, has a technological peak of 1950.

Also, as I have already said, Africa has a bunch of resources but none can be simulated as none can be represented as one of the 6 resources the game allows.

Victoria II did this right, they also did the population right (unrest, rebellions though it was overdone, competing religions, numerous social reforms).

 

[Spear12]

I don't want to see it happen to fast, at most I would just want to see only a few states have that happen and even then it shouldn't take a short amount of time.

The length, while infinite, has a technological peak of 1950.

I agree, but there needs to be some sort of mechanism for developing industry in underdeveloped areas better than it is now. More states can help this out a great deal I think.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

I agree, but there needs to be some sort of mechanism for developing industry in underdeveloped areas better than it is now. More states can help this out a great deal I think.

Like South Africa.

 

[Spear12]

Like South Africa.

Yeah. I also think that Nigeria, West Africa (oh god is that state ugly), and East Africa (Kenya most especially due to their role in WWII) should be priorities to break up, and at least add one more state in Ethiopia (Ogden probably as Italian Somalia annexed it). If there was an Africa focused expansion pack that did all this and the changes I mentioned in my first post, I would buy it as soon as I could.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

Yeah. I also think that Nigeria, West Africa (oh god is that state ugly), and East Africa (Kenya most especially due to their role in WWII) should be priorities to break up, and at least add one more state in Ethiopia (Ogden probably as Italian Somalia annexed it). If there was an Africa focused expansion pack that did all this and the changes I mentioned in my first post, I would buy it as soon as I could.

All of those countries got their independence 20 or 30 years after World War II which is why they're not included, Kenya and those are there in order to comply with the NF of South Africa, and Egypt is there because it is historically independent but the developers are too lazy to simulate Egypt's semi-independence.

 

[Spear12]

All of those countries got their independence 20 or 30 years after World War II which is why they're not included, Kenya and those are there in order to comply with the NF of South Africa, and Egypt is there because it is historically independent but the developers are too lazy to simulate Egypt's semi-independence.

I'm talking more about states to make it a integrated part of the world akin to other regions rather than releasable nations sith NFs (which would be nice but unrealistic. Mods can do that anyway)

But at least more states in Ethiopia/East Africa if we are talking about countries because of Ethiopia and the East African Campaign.

 

[The_Human_Oddity]

This is getting a bit off topic, we should create another thread for a discussion about region sizes.

As I have already said, Africa is plentiful in resources but none of them can be simulated as none of them can be represented as one of the 6 resources.

Most of Africa was agriculture, livestock, or cotton (excluding the desert regions, AKA Sahara). I would like it if they did it more like Victoria II which stumps HoI4 in industry.

 

[Spear12]

This is getting a bit off topic, we should create another thread for a discussion about region sizes.

As I have already said, Africa is plentiful in resources but none of them can be simulated as none of them can be represented as one of the 6 resources.

Most of Africa was agriculture, livestock, or cotton (excluding the desert regions, AKA Sahara). I would like it if they did it more like Victoria II which stumps HoI4 in industry.

Maybe if you add "Uniforms" or "Shoes/Boots" as a product you need for troops you could add agricultural and livestock. At least, if we only talk about military equipment.

 

[Secret Master]

The Middle East isn't important? Did I miss a memo?

Shoot, in my last MP game as Germany, I took out Turkey, Syria, the Suez, Iraq, the Saudis, Yemen, and Oman to get the oil (and seal the Med). And I needed that oil under 1.3.2.

I imagine it's even more important now in 1.3.3. If the Allies are bombing your synthetic plants all the time, even 20-30 oil from the Middle East would be handy. You have to bottle up the Soviets to prevent them from going in and taking the oil, but that's what Turkey's deserts and mountains are for.

Regarding sealing the Med: You only need to contest the Suez and the straits at Gibraltar to seal the Med from Allied ships. If you occupy Spain and the east side of the Suez, the Allies are sealed in the Med. They can still receive convoys of supply to North Africa and Egypt via certain ports, but the islands and Italy are basically off limits, as my enemies found out the hard way.