Major IGC Questions (Comments)

[unmerged(15440)]

I am playing Nippon....

My questions are;

1. Is it "hardwired" that Nippon can NOT vassallize Ayutthaya?

I have been trying just to vassallize them for 30+ years. I have had a +200 point friendship with them for all this time and yet no matter what I do they keep refusing.

2. Is it "hardwired" that Nippon can not ally with Dai Viet?

I had +134 relationship with them and they were not allied with anyone and yet I did not even get the option to ask them to join my alliance... the option to ask them remained dark and never turned green.

3. WHY DO ALL THE PROVINCES IN CHINA, NIPPON, AND KOREA HAVE LARGE FORTIFICATIONS?

If this is just to prevent European nations from taking them out to easily it is the wrong way to do it... no wonder nothing happens in this part of the world when playing a European nation. No one has the ability to take another's province in AI vs. AI norms.

There is talk that Korea does not seem to play a role...humph, I wonder how any of them can. In my opinion if you want to make the nations in Asia "DO" something then elimenate the Large forts and give them very cheap and very large amounts of manpower to raise armies. This would cause the four of them (China, Nippon, Dai Viet, and Ayutthaya) to have nice massive battles during their wars... and would still keep Europeans from conquering them to easily (afterall even Spain would find it hard to transport enough troops so far, fast enough to counter 60,000+ armies of chinese, nipponese, etc constantly thrown at them).

If only their capitols had the large forts, while the rest were just minimums, then provinces would change hands often during a war fought with 50-100 thousand troops. Truly epic wars... whereas the outcome would most likely end up as a status quo peace, or where a few, very few gained anything.

Just IMHO...
Ken Von Romig

 

[Carolus Rex]

1. U prolly dont share the same religion.
2. Are they vassals of anyone?
3. Yeah.

 

[JMDurron]

I couldn't agree with you more on #3. As Spain, one of my main strategic goals is to move to SE Asia (after India of course) and take as much of China as I can to get funding to take down Europe in a unstoppable fury (starting to get WC ambitions), but when I saw those fortifications in China, there was really no point in trying. It would take 20 wars to take even half of the country! That pretty much drove me back to the GC to attempt my first WC, IGC just isn't going to work with Fortress Asia.

 

[saskganesh]

Originally posted by JMDurron
It would take 20 wars to take even half of the country! That pretty much drove me back to the GC to attempt my first WC, IGC just isn't going to work with Fortress Asia.

it does, get a good leader or two over there, build more guns, and use naval blockade. if you make the china conquest a two war process: one war to secure bases, a second to conquer the rest, it is possible.

i usually take japan out first as a stepping stone.

 

[Morpheus506]

1. Hmm... Do you mean that you have been able to ask but they refuse or that you can't ask?

2. Ooh... I'm stumped...

3. I agree that fortresses should be smaller, but maybe not just the capitols. Make some of them large, and a bunch maybe not large but at least small fortresses instead of minimum. Also either axe Korea entirely or just give them much much more power so they actually do something.

600 posts!

 

[unmerged(15440)]

1. I can ask... but they keep refusing. We have the same religion, we are allies, we have a royal marriage, and +200 relationship. It is all there, but they refuse over and over again. Even when I wait 10 years in-between asking.

3. Well Small forts in strategic locations would be fine... but not a Large in every province.

Ken Von Romig

 

[Morpheus506]

Well.... maybe a)your BB is too high, or b)they just hate you.

 

[unmerged(8545)]

For vassalization, I suppose both the diplo rating of your king and the diplo rating of their king comes into account.

Also, your bad boy rating mkight lower your chances.

Sometimes countries are very stubborn, in eu2 as Bohemia I tried to vassalize Brandenburg for over 50 years, I never succeeded.

 

[unmerged(2410)]

It would take 20 wars to take even half of the country!

Sooner or later, I always go for Japan and China. You're right that the fortresses can be a pain, but if you Land Tech is high enough, It won't be big problem.


First you take Japan:
Make 3-4 fleets. Make an army for each fleet. One army must be big enough to handle the large main force. I recommend 100K+. The other 2-3 armies must be large siege armies 30-40K inf. and 200-300 guns. Position your fleets. One at Hokkaido, the others around the main island. Dump your main force on top of the Japanese main force, while your siege armies start annihaliting the fortresses. Assault is often the key to succes. If it takes more than a year to take Japan this way ... you ain't doin' it right

Then you take China:
Japan is the stepping stone. It's your base of operations, and it's where you recruit the amries that will bring down The Middle Kingdom. You should have a truckload of cannon left over from the invasion of Japan, but you have to stock up on inf. Do that.

Taking China is essentially done the same way as taking Japan. Large forces. Strategically placed fleets. Multiple fronts. Assault, assault, assault. It will of course be a bit harder, as China is somewhat larger, but succes is almost assured. Keep your Japanese provinces churning out inf+cannon. You have to apply maximum pressure at all times. Watch out for BB wars, though!

 

[Morpheus506]

Originally posted by JMDurron
It would take 20 wars to take even half of the country!

Not if you annex them outright in the second war.

 

[unmerged(13397)]

Excellent strategic guide Mjuul! (it's "exactly" the same sequence of moves I usually do)
And true: the key is assault, assault, assault!
Japanese infantry is happy anyway to die attacking their ancient enemies!
More: this operation is something that is usually done only when you have a quite large empire (it needs "a lot" of money for fleets, cannons and recruiting more infantry in Japan), so there's no time to wait for sieges before revolts come out for war exaustion in your empire: another reason to assault.

About the complaints of Vonromig on the large fortresses. I humbly disagree!
As it is, in IGC China conquest is something pleasantly challenging even when you are quite powerful. Otherwise it would be easy as a walk.
And giving to China super-cheap troops wouldn't be a solution. The China invasion is always (almost, and IF it happens) something that takes place quite late in the game, and the difference in land tech level is so favorable to your (presumably) latin technology that even waves after waves of 200K chinese armies wouldn't be a real match for your armies. Powerful fortresses instead ARE a challenge.

 

[unmerged(15440)]

Originally posted by mjuul
Sooner or later, I always go for Japan and China. You're right that the fortresses can be a pain, but if you Land Tech is high enough, It won't be big problem.


First you take Japan:
Make 3-4 fleets. Make an army for each fleet. One army must be big enough to handle the large main force. I recommend 100K+. The other 2-3 armies must be large siege armies 30-40K inf. and 200-300 guns. Position your fleets. One at Hokkaido, the others around the main island. Dump your main force on top of the Japanese main force, while your siege armies start annihaliting the fortresses. Assault is often the key to succes. If it takes more than a year to take Japan this way ... you ain't doin' it right

Then you take China:
Japan is the stepping stone.....

***

Only problem is I am playing Nippon...

So far my campaign is going well, if slowly. Unfortunely Nippon does NOT get regular settlers or explorers except for one rare event (even then the 1 settler I got failed). And they do not get to build factories, even when they have the tech level for them.

So far I have taken Korea and northern China, all the way to their capitol. The nice thing is that I am not dealing with the normal 3% rebellion feature when taking over a province, which would have been a pain with Large forts. It is now 1597.

Ken Von Romig

 

[Stonewall]

If you are playing as Japan, make sure you take them out of the exotic tech group. Give them Muslim or the like. I have done this with all the RoTW countries. Also, you have to give them a eligion other than Pagan. I tend to split countries in the RoTW up as Shiite or Sunni. Generally, I make India and Japan Shiite, and China and the rest of the other small states like Dai Viet and Ayatuhaya Sunni. Either way, you can't build buildings with Pagan as your religion and your tech level won't
advance as exotic.

 

[unmerged(2410)]

If you are playing as Japan, make sure you take them out of the exotic tech group. Give them Muslim or the like. I have done this with all the RoTW countries. Also, you have to give them a eligion other than Pagan. I tend to split countries in the RoTW up as Shiite or Sunni. Generally, I make India and Japan Shiite, and China and the rest of the other small states like Dai Viet and Ayatuhaya Sunni. Either way, you can't build buildings with Pagan as your religion and your tech level won't

I did that in an experimental game ... tech levelse still didn't rise! How come?

 

[unmerged(11600)]

Originally posted by sherlock
The China invasion is always (almost, and IF it happens) something that takes place quite late in the game, and the difference in land tech level is so favorable to your (presumably) latin technology that even waves after waves of 200K chinese armies wouldn't be a real match for your armies. Powerful fortresses instead ARE a challenge.

Maybe it's an IGC thing, but my experience in the GC is that China is the AI country with the highest (by far) land tech in the game, and only a concentrated effort in research by the human player will surpass it. Currently (c.1650) I'm almost maxed out (as Russia), China is in the low 30's, and the next highest land tech is somewhere in the low teens. I plan on conquering China without Nippon (I refuse to spend money on naval tech until I've maxed out everything else this game, for purely role-playing reasons ). The flip side is, in the GC China has a small fortress at Beijing and minimal everywhere else. And I'm ringing them with maximum forts before I start that war.

-Pat

 

[unmerged(15440)]

Originally posted by Stonewall
If you are playing as Japan, make sure you take them out of the exotic tech group. Give them Muslim or the like. I have done this with all the RoTW countries. Also, you have to give them a eligion other than Pagan. I tend to split countries in the RoTW up as Shiite or Sunni. Generally, I make India and Japan Shiite, and China and the rest of the other small states like Dai Viet and Ayatuhaya Sunni. Either way, you can't build buildings with Pagan as your religion and your tech level won't
advance as exotic.

***

I do not have the first clue how to take them out of Exotic, nuch less anything else... I don't know anything about editing a game (not even how to get into a game to edit it).

But as of now, as Nippon, I have conquered China (1603) and presently attacking Dai Viet... the only problem is I can't "talk" to any other nations, even though I see them on the map (having exchanged maps with Mughals and Persia). All the Diplo choices remain dark when I select any country other than Dai Viet, Ayutthaya, Mughals, and Persia. Although I have had one of my rare, event created, explorers move into a Spainish colony Spain is still not responcive to talking to me.

I would also like to see an option not to stop all trading with other nations... mostly because this event also prevents you from trading in your own CoT. What is up with that?

Anyways, how do you change the starting religion of a nation?

Ken Von Romig

 

[Morpheus506]

IIRC, You have to go into the scenario file (IGC, Grand Campaign, etc.) and find the country stats. Then you can just edit what religion they are.

 

[unmerged(2410)]

In my experience, it still won't affect your research. But if anyone has experienced otherwise, please, please , tell me

Maybe it's an IGC thing, but my experience in the GC is that China is the AI country with the highest (by far) land tech in the game, and only a concentrated effort in research by the human player will surpass it. Currently (c.1650) I'm almost maxed out (as Russia), China is in the low 30's, and the next highest land tech is somewhere in the low teens. I plan on conquering China without Nippon (I refuse to spend money on naval tech until I've maxed out everything else this game, for purely role-playing reasons ). The flip side is, in the GC China has a small fortress at Beijing and minimal everywhere else. And I'm ringing them with maximum forts before I start that war.

Seems like you, pjcrowe, made them advance - how? I have tried assigning these nations from the 'exotic' to other spheres without succes...

 

[unmerged(11600)]

Originally posted by mjuul
Seems like you, pjcrowe, made them advance - how? I have tried assigning these nations from the 'exotic' to other spheres without succes...

I haven't altered the game files in any way, shape, or form, so my guess is that's the way the GC plays them. Last time I checked (Apr 1647) China's techs were 30/17/3/6/6.

But as I said, maybe it's different in the IGC.

-Pat