Majesty 3 -- with new game engine

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Nerdfish

Colonel
41 Badges
Jul 11, 2007
1.186
27
www.ssnt.org
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Impire
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
more challenging ? M2 already have "Russian" difficulty where the only way to win some missions is knowing about the mission in advance !
I hope they make M3 more relaxing and less of a survival game.
 

Spiderman

Colonel
2 Badges
Jul 5, 2007
858
1
  • Majesty 2
  • 500k Club
Well honestly, that's not the same in my opinion.
Dunno for me it's a downside but some people like it.
point is the majesty 3(if they make it) needed to be more challenging and more interesting in gameplay.

Ray

<shrug> True, it's all subjective, but I can't see how having the freedom to building as many as you want, where and when you want, is a downside. You simply don't build that many if you don't like having that many (which again, isn't even necessary). But I'd rather have that than having the game force a limit on how much you can build, especially in a game billing itself as a "sim".
 

Hapuga

Major
8 Badges
Jan 14, 2010
596
17
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Age of Wonders III
more challenging ? M2 already have "Russian" difficulty where the only way to win some missions is knowing about the mission in advance !
I hope they make M3 more relaxing and less of a survival game.

Ahah ) very true about Russian part. THe funny thing, most Russians found it pretty easy =)

This is only a conclusion that difficulty should vary. It is a must.
 

Hassat Hunter

Lt. General
4 Badges
Jul 22, 2007
1.365
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
Buh, must be the x-packs then because barring a single map (that came as free DLC) they were a breeze. The original MFKS had a challenge, MFKS2? Not so much.
I beat all my quests (main game) in the first try, how could you not? (well, bar the final one, because my game crashed. So I had to re-do it anyways. Was close to beating it though)
 

cr4y88

Private
2 Badges
Jan 14, 2011
23
0
  • Majesty 2
  • 500k Club
<shrug> True, it's all subjective, but I can't see how having the freedom to building as many as you want, where and when you want, is a downside. You simply don't build that many if you don't like having that many (which again, isn't even necessary). But I'd rather have that than having the game force a limit on how much you can build, especially in a game billing itself as a "sim".
Well, it's true. But sometimes having limit for me, make the game more interesting

Ray
 

Hassat Hunter

Lt. General
4 Badges
Jul 22, 2007
1.365
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
True, which is why some MFKS missions did exactly that.
But in MFKS2 you pretty much can build everything once you unlocked it from the lower missions...
 
Feb 27, 2010
14
0
more challenging ? M2 already have "Russian" difficulty where the only way to win some missions is knowing about the mission in advance !
I hope they make M3 more relaxing and less of a survival game.

it's only hard if you 'save' and 'load' too soon...there's a bug that screws up the monster spawning when you do that too early in the game...simply try not to reload and you'll be fine....
On the other hand, for super hard difficulty (sometimes near impossible to survive), save and re-load on you first day....
 

Sifer2

Captain
33 Badges
Jul 18, 2007
465
12
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Magicka 2
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Gettysburg
If they do it then the new engine definitely needs to support a random map generator. I know they tried to make their money off this thing by selling new mission packs. An that's likely a reason it was not a priority for them to make a decent skirmish mode or editor. But seriously next time don't screw that up please.

As for hero AI. I can see how people would have a difference of opinion on it. Majesty 2's is more like an RTS in a way. That is idiot units that can do little until you tell them to. Only difference is they are less responsive an require gold to order them to do something. An you have more control than before with the avoid/defense flags. Hardly more fun to me at least. In the original it was more Sim like an part of the strategy came from building the type of hero you knew you needed. Like Rangers if you needed to explore. Or Rogues if you needed some cheap hit men. Paladins or Adepts if you wanted defense. It was both easier an harder at times.

While those concepts are preserved to an extent its still less satisfying to me that the heroes don't do something just cause its their natural personality to. An the bonus interactions like gambling dens just gave more fun to the game an didn't need to be removed. An I never liked the avoid flag really. I guess what I am saying it next time I would like it to be more of a Sim for better or worse. I have plenty of RTS to play. As for the Russian difficulty yeah they did go over board at times with the surprise surge of huge numbers of enemies. Making you need advance knowledge of what will happen to beat something isn't fun game design.
 

unmerged(90031)

Corporal
1 Badges
Dec 30, 2007
45
0
  • Majesty 2
I think Paradox should give HeroCraft (who did the mobile Majesty game) a shot at Majesty 3. Great graphics do not make a great game, gameplay does and HeroCraft has did a good job with the mobile Majesty game they created. Everyone jump on board to make this happen !!!!
 

DorthLous

First Lieutenant
65 Badges
Sep 27, 2009
214
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • War of the Roses
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Age of Wonders
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • King Arthur II
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Starvoid
  • Victoria 2
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Dungeonland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
Herocraft certainly seem to understand the community's feeling. I'd vote for them over Ino-Co, but I'll wait until I bought and played their game for a complete support vote.
 

HorseproofBacon

Sergeant
17 Badges
Jun 13, 2010
97
2
  • Majesty 2
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Sword of the Stars II
more challenging ? M2 already have "Russian" difficulty where the only way to win some missions is knowing about the mission in advance !
I hope they make M3 more relaxing and less of a survival game.

This x 10000000000000000. I'd like to have fun when I play a game, not want to slit my wrists in frustration.
 

Alfryd

...It's nice up here!
3 Badges
Jul 9, 2007
2.031
12
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Majesty 2
  • 500k Club
I think Paradox should give HeroCraft (who did the mobile Majesty game) a shot at Majesty 3. Great graphics do not make a great game, gameplay does and HeroCraft has did a good job with the mobile Majesty game they created. Everyone jump on board to make this happen !!!!
The Majesty Mobile game turned out okay? Really? What did you think of it?
 

Draxynnic

General
15 Badges
Jan 8, 2008
2.033
72
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
Well, a little late to this party...

Regarding the "heroes go out to destroy lairs = too easy" discussion, I'd say that if your heroes really are going out to trash lairs on their own without assistance from you, you've pretty much already won anyway. The exceptions are when you don't want a particular lair destroyed just yet or when there's a wave coming and you'd rather the heroes were at home... in which case such behaviour is characterful for appropriate heroes and part of the challenge. Time to use what tools are available to get them to stop lairsmashing and do what you need them to do.

On the whole, I think heroes having more personality, initiative, and self-awareness would be the main things I would be looking for. Another thing is that while the upgrade system is nifty, I'd prefer the higher-level heroes to be not quite so obviously designed around it (especially considering the core six that were obviously laid out as "two for warriors, two for clerics, two for rangers") - would be better, I think, to decide on the general concepts of the top-tier heroes as appropriate for their deities and than draw the upgrade links. Don't get me wrong, most of them DID make sense, but I still find archers of Helia to be a bit... well, like they were used to fit the 3x2 matrix rather than because they actually made sense for Helia. Better would be something like the original solari based on warriors or rogues or an especially pyromaniacal wizard. (Archers, meanwhile, would fit much better for the god of winds, although the assassins of Lunord weren't that bad a fit either. Mind you, sneaky snipers could draw on both concepts...)
 

unmerged(169743)

Corporal
1 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
40
0
  • Majesty 2
Majesty 3 - Pushing Boundaries

Let's just forget Majesty 2. There are both arguments in favour of majesty 2 and arguments in favour of MFKS. I think really it's enough to be said that a game sequel, 10 years after the original, is only debatable in a quality to comparrison to its predecessor. Even if it is slightly better, is that the best you can do? With 10 years and the technology that comes with it?

We just need to be constructive, and make it damn clear where the game needs to improve, and to make sure that the same mistakes are not made again with Maj3.
Here are a few points that might be worthy of consideration:

1. Focus on your strengths. Majesty is a game about AI, it's about heroes acting independently and 'cleverly' (whether that in game terms equates to being realistically stupid or intelligent). This is a tremendous selling point, and it's a travesty that Maj2 sidelined it. (Think about the success of games like the sims -a game which focusses on simulating behaviour can succeed!). On a similar note do not ever again say 'it's more of an RTS than a sim'. When I read/saw that I almost combusted. Don't try to do things simply for the sake of appealing to a market. Invariably you do it badly and not only let down your fan base but fail to appeal to those you were trying to appeal to in the first place. If it's good, they will play it.

2. Don't be constrained by what has gone before. Sometimes decisions are made in games to do things a certain way because there are substantial engine limitations. Don't think that because heroes had to destroy lairs by hitting them repeatedly till they were destroyed means that it always has to work like that. One idea is to have heroes actually enter lairs, and kill the monsters/burn them down from the inside. (Incidentally, remember the awesome loading screens in Maj1 where heroes were doing just that?) You might consider enabling building interiors full stop.

3. Maj2 could be fun in some ways, but it essentially amounted to a tremendous hackfest, with wave after wave after wave of enemies. This does not do justice to the variety of hero classes. There needs to be more for heroes to do-- more exploration, more quests, more adventuring. Similarly Alfryd has suggested a while ago that heroes might serve a useful social function in your settlement by having special skills which they use for the benefit of your town. This would give the game more personality and is to be encouraged.

3. On a personal note I think Maj2 went the wrong way. They went for quantity of monsters over quality. I think you can develop closer attachments to your heroes if there are fewer of them and they fight fewer monsters in longer battles. (Note this does not mean the number of different types of enemies should be less). It would be conducive therefore to have bigger maps, and more time for heroes to go out and explore and fight.

4. The way monster spawning works needs to be adjusted through and through. Invariably if you are quick off the mark you can destroy a number of lairs quickly in maj2, thereby making the remainder of the level considerably easier. A game like majesty should not encourage rushing antics.

5. (this point should be higher up). Heroes without a shadow of a doubt need more personality. They need uniquie traits/characteristics to determine (influence) how they behave. A vampire hunter trait for a ranger for example, might make him much more responsive to attack flags on vampires. The stubborn trait might make a hero less inclined to retreat, and fight harder as he takes more damage etc.

6. It would be nice for town buildings to have a bit more personality, I can understand why Maj2 went for a consistent architectural scheme, but it really brings out the character when the buildings are so different, as per maj1.

7. More persistence. Maj 2 took some good steps but they were too limited. If in conjunction with the idea of above, of having less monsters and heroes but longer fights, persistant hero transitioning would be more viable. Alternatively one might consider the outlandish step of making the entire campaign persistant, where your same town is used for most missions (they way building/development works would have to be adjusted). Early in the Maj 2 development, they suggested there might be portals- these could accomodate such an approach.

8. Co-op seems to be the order of the day, and it is infinitely more fun playing alongside someone else to achieve a palpable end (not just random maps but the actual campaign). Is something worth considering. However if that puts the idea of a MMPORG into your head, then stick with mainly singleplayer.

9. Like everyone here says-- sandbox.

If there's more I'll add it. Most important thing is not to think in terms of baby steps from Maj1 or 2, we have the technology, let's use it to take the spirit and character of the game to where it belongs.
 

Bloodly

Captain
37 Badges
Jul 24, 2008
480
11
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities in Motion
3. On a personal note I think Maj2 went the wrong way. They went for quantity of monsters over quality. I think you can develop closer attachments to your heroes if there are fewer of them and they fight fewer monsters in longer battles. (Note this does not mean the number of different types of enemies should be less). It would be conducive therefore to have bigger maps, and more time for heroes to go out and explore and fight.

I'm not entirely convinced of this. One can understand(Though not like) why they went for quantity, because quality is binary in the face of Rogues/Wizards/Dwarves-you're either immune to Stun/Freeze, and thus highly dangerous because you can't be interrupted or stopped, or you're not and die horribly to chain stunnings. There's little middle ground. It's a side effect of having more abilities that mess with the enemy rather than coming from/buffing the hero(though there's still a lot of those). Swarms have always been a problem in Majesty, though. AOE has always been rare.
 

unmerged(169743)

Corporal
1 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
40
0
  • Majesty 2
I think the problem then would be the fact that that heroes are capable of pumping out abilities. Heroes have mana bars but very rarely do they run out/can't use abilities for lack of mana. An adjustment to this system might include slower mana regeneration (so heroes actually have to rest perhaps?) as well as a change in the way abilities work. They're not really heroes if you have 20 of them mobbing a target.

And to an extent I think you dealt with your own point. You said, quality is binary in the face of rogues wizards and dwarves, but that as you recognise is because they have ready access to stun/freeze, thereby inducing stun-locking. In Majesty 1, there were very few hero abilities (if any) that could achieve those effects.

Ultimately the quality v quantity debate is determined by how you see heroes work, and how their abilities work, and their speed and quantity. If you envisage Maj 3 in terms of Maj2 (which I strongly discourage)then your point, Bloodly, is bang on. But if you see a new modus operandi (for example reintroducing concepts like 'missing hits' etc), it could work.
 

Alfryd

...It's nice up here!
3 Badges
Jul 9, 2007
2.031
12
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Majesty 2
  • 500k Club
2. Don't be constrained by what has gone before. Sometimes decisions are made in games to do things a certain way because there are substantial engine limitations. Don't think that because heroes had to destroy lairs by hitting them repeatedly till they were destroyed means that it always has to work like that. One idea is to have heroes actually enter lairs, and kill the monsters/burn them down from the inside. (Incidentally, remember the awesome loading screens in Maj1 where heroes were doing just that?) You might consider enabling building interiors full stop.
I would luuurrve to see that happen. (I'm generally leery of the notion of anything short of siege weapons destroying most buildings in the first place.)

What might be an idea, rather than creating specific models for lairs, is to model them as an aspect of terrain, and generate them semi-randomly- a little like what you'd see way back in Diablo II. That way, you don't need a separate pathfinding system for indoor environments.

I actually put a little research into doing this for peasant cottages way back when. I don't think it would work easily for every structure/lair, but it could certainly add some character and individuality to specific building types- individual citizens' homes, for example.
...They're not really heroes if you have 20 of them mobbing a target.
Well, depending on the target... but yeah, by and large that sort of thing should be rare. I read an interesting article on 'boss fights' in 4E D&D, some of it might be applicable here.

I'm pretty well in total agreement with most or all of your other points, but I'll see if I can come back to those later on and elaborate on them further.


I'm not entirely convinced of this. One can understand(Though not like) why they went for quantity, because quality is binary in the face of Rogues/Wizards/Dwarves-you're either immune to Stun/Freeze, and thus highly dangerous because you can't be interrupted or stopped, or you're not and die horribly to chain stunnings.
The solution to this is to make stunning resistable, based on some attribute of the victim- strength or vitality, perhaps. (Though I'm not sure if those even exist in Maj2...)

I'd have to agree that it's not neccesarily fewer/tougher monsters that improve the experience- if anything, Maj1 had weaker monsters attacking in larger waves- but the key difference is that in Maj2, the monsters never stop. Ever. There's just this constant irritating trickle of insensible cannon-fodder that reminds me of nothing so much as DotA or a Tower Defence game.

A sim-style game needs to have interludes of peace so that heroes can do things other than fighting without looking like either (A) cretins and/or (B) psychopaths. (e.g, shopping for potions while their home is burning down and their comrades-in-arms are being mauled by trolls.)
 
Last edited:

unmerged(169743)

Corporal
1 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
40
0
  • Majesty 2
I'm starting to think that maybe the remedy to these problems is not just constructive criticism and suggestions. I think the most effective way (at least in terms of getting it right) to effect positive change is to present a suggestion for the whole schema. This would make an interesting community endeavour. Not just a case of saying we want this and we want that and leave the developers to fill in the gaps, but to actually present the gap filling exercise ourselves. That is of course if we want this to be the majesty we want, rather than the one the developers decide to give us (ask us to pay for).