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Aug 22, 2006
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Since the maps will be much better and larger than in the original Majesty, which was a request from the start, and there will be room for usermade content, it's not like they're scaling back the game from the original.

I think freestyle could be a good thing to add to an expansion-pack if there will be one. I don't mind if devs survive by actually making money off their games, I mean Cyberlore included most features you moan about and they aren't around anymore...

Kamrad, do you know if there are things in the missions that will be random? Like if there are a couple of different starting locations, locations for lairs or holy-sites, enemies you encounter (sometimes mostly goblins and trolls, another time bears and wolfs), etc which change one time to another when you start a mission. Or are all things set the same at the start of the mission?
 

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kamrad, that's misleading.. what you wrote was;



Now, if it's going to be part of an expansion I re-iterate my original point, which is why should I have to pay twice to get this feature when the original included it?

If you are now saying that skirmish/freeplay might be in the initial release then please say so. In my opinion if you are serious about making Maj2 as popular and enduring as Maj1 you simply cannot omit the freeplay.. seriously.. big mistake.. you'll have to get very used to people like me moaning on about it.. and you'll lose sales.. people expect some kind of skirmish/random battle feature in an RTS..

Dear Banquet, I understood your point clearly enough, please trust me. I mostly agree with you that freeplay and skirmish options are important for Majesty 2. And I do my best to deliver this point of view to developers leaders.
And I already had the conversation about skirmish and freeplay modes with our CEO. And result of that conversation is my message to you which I quoted previously.
I am not very good in games engines, but how I understood there is the some problem with GEM3 Engine (the engine which is technological basis of Majesty 2) in part of random maps generation. And this is cause of freestyle game mode absence. But in part of skirmish mode difficulties are not the same as with random generated maps, and there is the chance for happy end. And one more thing. When I wrote about possible update I don't mean that it will paid update. I don't know about England, but here in Russia developers often releases so-called "patches" for their games, updating games with new or updated features, game modes, multiplayer maps and so on. I can't vow to you that skirmish will be implemented by such way, but this is not impossible.
 

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Kamrad, do you know if there are things in the missions that will be random? Like if there are a couple of different starting locations, locations for lairs or holy-sites, enemies you encounter (sometimes mostly goblins and trolls, another time bears and wolfs), etc which change one time to another when you start a mission. Or are all things set the same at the start of the mission?

I want to be honest and I have to say that there are not random elements on the maps. Like I wrote previously it's not possible because of technological causes.
 
Feb 10, 2009
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I love the idea of a freestyle/skirmish, in fact I think it's a necessity for any modern RTS. This mode, however must be made much better than Majesty's way. I never like Majesty's freestyle, I like the concept, but the way Majesty is played just never allowed for a great freestyle mach (At leased with the options provided).

They were always either way too easy or way too hard (dragons attacking base within 5 minutes). Majesty has to have dynamic missions.
 

Banquet

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Dear Banquet, I understood your point clearly enough, please trust me. I mostly agree with you that freeplay and skirmish options are important for Majesty 2. And I do my best to deliver this point of view to developers leaders.
And I already had the conversation about skirmish and freeplay modes with our CEO. And result of that conversation is my message to you which I quoted previously.
I am not very good in games engines, but how I understood there is the some problem with GEM3 Engine (the engine which is technological basis of Majesty 2) in part of random maps generation. And this is cause of freestyle game mode absence. But in part of skirmish mode difficulties are not the same as with random generated maps, and there is the chance for happy end. And one more thing. When I wrote about possible update I don't mean that it will paid update. I don't know about England, but here in Russia developers often releases so-called "patches" for their games, updating games with new or updated features, game modes, multiplayer maps and so on. I can't vow to you that skirmish will be implemented by such way, but this is not impossible.

kamrad, I mean no hostility to you, but I am very disappointed by the news you're bringing to this forum. I have no idea what relationship you have to the devs, or what experience you have with Majesty 1, but you should note;

Majesty 1 freeplay mode didn't use random maps, you picked a pre-built map to use. Not being able to produce random maps is therefore no reason for Majesty 2 to not include Freeplay.

I see you're now using the word 'patch' before you used the terms 'add on' and 'update' I don't want to get pedantic, but make your mind up. I may be from England but I play games from all over the world and I know the difference between an add on and a patch.. if freeplay mode isn't in the initial release, I highly doubt it will be included as a free patch.. it will either be forgotten about while the devs grab their money and run, or it will be included in an expansion which will cost money.
 

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Feb 19, 2009
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agreed with banquet, freestyle should be included no matter what in the initial release of maj2. patch is a patch - simple bugfix. you never add new things in a patch, cause then it is called add-on or expansion.

better to do an add-on with new units/items/maps like northern expansion did. and maj2 will contain campaigns and pre-random freestyle mode. it will boost playability to the skyes. cause i am playing majesty for almost 10 years now (or how old it is) - not on everyday basis, but every half a year i reinstall it and do over again. never getting bored to play freestyle. the more you play the more campaign missions are like challenges for you - you try to finish them with only gnomes or any other weird strategy just for fun.

do freestyle! we vote for that :p
 

Alfryd

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Alfryd please don't be so touchy :)
*sigh* It's just that I've been pointing out this AI defect for well... months certainly. Certainly quite shortly after Paradox announced buying the IP.
When heroes are in panic they just flee and don't notice in certain period of time anything or anybody around them. For instance, if Cleric meet another hero fleeing in panic, then she'll cure that hero and most probably he'll cheer up and will return to fight.
That's logical and acceptable AI enough for me.
What if the hero isn't injured in the first place? What if they just took a look at the monster nearby and decided to wet their pants and run home?
'Logical and acceptable' AI for me would be noticing the cleric, telling the cleric that you need help, evaluating whether that cleric's help would be enough to turn the tide, and then coming back into the fight with the cleric in tow.

Conversely, there are situations where heroes should flee in terror without waiting to be injured: if a single level 6 ranger is up against an elder dragon, then running away immediately is the only sane option. But a dozen level 6 rangers? That's a different story entirely.
...sometimes heroes in the game will start to flee even if they have health and mana potions in his bag. just because of scare. after the distance from monsters will be big enough, those scared heroes will stop, heal themselves and most probably will return to fight.
This is no good to me if my settlement has been razed in the meantime. What I'm mainly worried about is situations where heroes outnumber an approaching monster 6 to 1, but at least half of them flee in terror because no single hero is tougher than that monster- I've seen this happen all the time in single player quests and it drives me crazy. Case in point- in the Fortress of Ixmil quest, I'll use Call to Arms with my warriors when monsters arrive to attack the settlement, and then each warrior will arrive on the scene and individually flee in terror, one at a time- thus leaving me with exactly NO heroes to combat the threat! All despite the fact that my overall hero forces are more than adequate to fight the invasion!

This is particularly irritating because heroes DO make allowance for the number of enemies, so that many weak goblins may be as much of a perceived threat as a single tough minotaur. Why won't they do the same for allies! It's madness! I don't even see why it's particularly hard to do. I am almost certain that the AI needed for this is relatively simple and could be coded up with very little trouble: This is, like... maybe a dozen extra lines of code! I can probably do a tech demo, if it would help!

Please, please, I am begging you- at least attempt to provide some kind of patch or update post-release that will rectify these kinds of problems.
I have to say that heroes behaviour is verisimilar enough for such game like Majesty.
At least three of your own (p)reviewers disagree. I would wager there will be more. This isn't just about verisimilitude (though that's always a plus): It's about being able to muster your forces en masse reliably and without frustration.

(Also, will ranged units use hit-and-run? I'm sort of guessing 'No'?)
Banquet said:
Majesty 1 freeplay mode didn't use random maps, you picked a pre-built map to use. Not being able to produce random maps is therefore no reason for Majesty 2 to not include Freeplay.
That's not entirely accurate. ALL the maps in the Majesty 1 were randomly generated, including in single-player quests and multiplayer deathmatches. You just picked a terrain type, enemy force pattern, random events, starting gold, etc. Even your own buildings would start in random locations.

That said, I would also like to see a freestyle mode where you can pick a pre-made map, and then vary the types of monsters/invasions that would occur. But I can understand if it's difficult for technological reasons.
 
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Alfryd

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Look, here- here is the (approximate) amount of code you need to fix the group-retreat problem:
Code:
class Hero extends Actor {

  /// ...all the other normal code/stuff goes here...
  float confidence = 1 ;
  float getConfidence() { return confidence ; }

  void updateHero() {
    /// ...all the other normal code/stuff goes here...
    float totalThreat = 0 ;
    float groupConfidence = 0 ;
    List nearby = world.getAllActorsNear(this, sightRange) ;
    for (Actor actor : nearby) {
      //threat is calculated relative to actor strength.  I.e, a monster
      //twice as powerful gives threat = 2.0f.
      if (actor.isEnemyTo(this))
        totalThreat += getThreatFrom(actor) ;
      //listed allies will include the hero him/herself.
      if (actor.isAllyTo(this))
        groupConfidence += actor.getConfidence() ;
    }
    confidence = 1 / totalThreat ;
    if (groupConfidence < 0.5f)
      tryRetreat() ;
  }
}
It's practically self-explanatory: heroes calculate their individual 'confidence' based on the number and strength of nearby enemies, but decide to retreat based on the total confidence of themselves and all nearby allies. If this 'group confidence' drops below half (i.e, total enemy forces are about twice as strong as total allied forces,) then heroes will retreat. You might need to add various other minor checks, randomisations, and personality factors, but I'm confident the outline is sound.
 
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Banquet

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Kamrad,

Could you ask the devs if it would be possible to add something like freestyle to the Maj2 release if random maps weren't used, but instead we just picked from one of the maps available?

If it's possible to play co-op multiplayer against 2 AI opponents then the AI must be in place. All we need is to be able to pick a map (from those already available in campaigns, direct play scenario's, and multiplayer) Then allow us to choose how many AI opponents we want, possibly even whether to lock teams or free for all.. let us to pick what kind of wandering monsters will be roaming, how much starting money we get, and victory conditions (total destruction, first to X gold, first with char to level X, etc etc)

Something like this would get around the problem of the engine not being able to produce random maps, but would still give us replayability.
 

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First Lieutenant
Feb 4, 2009
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kamrad, I mean no hostility to you, but I am very disappointed by the news you're bringing to this forum. I have no idea what relationship you have to the devs, or what experience you have with Majesty 1, but you should note;

Information is information, I just answer to your questions. I don't know why English-speaking Majesty 2 community has so uncertain info about the game. For instance, Russian Majesty 2 fans have a lot of information about the game. We made official web-site (http://majesty2.ru) and answered to hundreds questions at tens of Russian web-boards. Take a look to the Majesty 2 official web-board ( http://majesty2.kamrad.ru ), for example - how you can see, there are many threads with many messages. Here is, for instance, 26-page thread with Majesty 2 Q&A: http://kamrad.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86540 . Or take a look to 16-page thread with fan's ideas and thoughts about the game: http://kamrad.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86552 . By the way, my nick-name is AleXX on the M2 official board.
And one more thing: I work in the Ino-Co Company which is developer of the game. I am the author of all the information which you can see at the Majesty 2 Russian official web-site.
If I hurted you with the information, I am sorry, and I can stop to answer to questions, if you wish.

Majesty 1 freeplay mode didn't use random maps, you picked a pre-built map to use. Not being able to produce random maps is therefore no reason for Majesty 2 to not include Freeplay.

My mistake, I am sorry, I was not clear enough. Technology-inspired causes are reason to not include random maps. Freeplay doesn't be included because of other reasons.

I see you're now using the word 'patch' before you used the terms 'add on' and 'update' I don't want to get pedantic, but make your mind up. I may be from England but I play games from all over the world and I know the difference between an add on and a patch.. if freeplay mode isn't in the initial release, I highly doubt it will be included as a free patch.. it will either be forgotten about while the devs grab their money and run, or it will be included in an expansion which will cost money.

I am sorry, there is really misunderstanding. In Russian the words "update" and "path" means the same things)
Anyway, even if the free-play mode will be included into paid add-on, in addition to new maps, heroes, campaign and so on - then so? Can it really be bad? With all my respect, I don't think so.

And once more time I am sorry for my bad English. It's really my second conversation in English. But I'll do my best to learn this wonderful language :wacko:
 
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Banquet

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И еще раз я сожалею о моем плохом английском языке. Это - моя вторая беседа в английском :wacko: Однако, я приложу все усилия, чтобы изучить этот замечательный язык :rofl:

Don't worry, your English is a lot better than my Russian

Anyway, even if the free-play mode will be included into paid add-on, in addition to new maps, heroes, campaign and so on - then so? Can it really be bad? With all my respect, I don't think so.

I do think so. What kept me playing Majesty 1 was the freeplay mode. No freeplay = no sale as far as I'm concerned.. and that includes having to pay for it in a paid add on.. if the add on also happens to have a load of other fluff, that's irrelevant to me.
 

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First Lieutenant
Feb 4, 2009
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Kamrad,

Could you ask the devs if it would be possible to add something like freestyle to the Maj2 release if random maps weren't used, but instead we just picked from one of the maps available?

If it's possible to play co-op multiplayer against 2 AI opponents then the AI must be in place. All we need is to be able to pick a map (from those already available in campaigns, direct play scenario's, and multiplayer) Then allow us to choose how many AI opponents we want, possibly even whether to lock teams or free for all.. let us to pick what kind of wandering monsters will be roaming, how much starting money we get, and victory conditions (total destruction, first to X gold, first with char to level X, etc etc)

Something like this would get around the problem of the engine not being able to produce random maps, but would still give us replayability.

It all are questions of time, but development time is not developer's prerogative.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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So, you're Alexey that was here answering questions a while ago?!

Many of the complainers here are old HoA-players who have very specific wishes of what the game should be like. I think Cyberlore tried to develop a game in that direction, but failed for some reason. Maybe they understood the game wouldn't be fun or sell enough.
 

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So, you're Alexey that was here answering questions a while ago?!

Yes, my name is Alexey and I really answered a lot of questions about Majesty 2 in many places :)

Many of the complainers here are old HoA-players who have very specific wishes of what the game should be like. I think Cyberlore tried to develop a game in that direction, but failed for some reason. Maybe they understood the game wouldn't be fun or sell enough.

Is HoA the Heroes of Ardania MMO game? (http://www.heroesofardania.net)
 
Aug 22, 2006
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Is HoA the Heroes of Ardania MMO game? (http://www.heroesofardania.net)
Yes.

What would you say is the biggest improvement in terms of gameplay from the original Majesty?
Will you be adding any new mechanics to the game, or are you mostly balancing and polishing the game now? I e, is it too late to make suggestions for new features?

edit:
Will the lords continue to rise in power and gain items in subsequent missions? If you've hired a lord and finished the mission - will he go back to the level and inventory where he was made lord or will he rise until he hit some levelcap?

Is there any limit to how many lords you'll be able to choose from? If you can make one lord after each mission, there will be quite many lords after a while...

Are all heroes able to become lords? or is it the higher tier heroes that require temples?
 
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